What negative Exposure compensation to use in country with bright light like India?

Alex Benjamin

Subscriber
Joined
Aug 8, 2018
Messages
2,463
Location
Montreal
Format
Multi Format

He did say black and white (post #3), but indeed nothing about which film, nor about how it will be developed.
 

Andrew O'Neill

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Jan 16, 2004
Messages
11,969
Location
Coquitlam,BC Canada
Format
Multi Format
lieven2323 said:
Andrew
I only plan to have exposure reading from the camera. So you advice to underexpose 2 stops when I take the reading from the blacks.?
Click to expand...

Only if you are taking the reading of the blacks (shadows) and nothing else.
 

Juan Valdenebro

Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2010
Messages
1,286
Location
South America
Format
Multi Format
To OP:
"The shadows" can also be a misleading expression, because it means the deep shadows without direct sunlight in sunny days, but it also means the darker tones in any photograph done in soft overcast light.
So, in general expose for the values your camera gives you, but metering things that aren't too dark or too light, and of course not including the sky or other sources of light in the parts of the scene you use for metering. All this for soft overcast light, or for subjects in the shadows in a sunny day.
Now, for subjects under direct sunlight, I recommend you to avoid metering, and just use 1/125 f/8 for ISO100 and 1/250 f/11 for ISO400. (Sunny f/16 is for slide film).
That will be good enough for wet printing and for scanning, and you'll be away from gross metering and exposure mistakes that appear easily.
 

DREW WILEY

Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2011
Messages
13,933
Format
8x10 Format
I'm glad I learned in an era when light meters were light meters. Doing without them in high contrast situations seems unthinkable. The two films which are going to handle that kind range best are the two speeds of TMax (100 and 400); but these are films which tend to require careful shadow metering.
 

BrianShaw

Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2005
Messages
16,526
Location
La-la-land
Format
Multi Format
Wait, whaaaaat? Worrying about too much light in India but using fast film? Might want to re-think that. Slower film might be a better option. Or use ND filters and compensate your exposure. But, honestly… this is getting much more complex than necessary.
 

DREW WILEY

Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2011
Messages
13,933
Format
8x10 Format
Ordinary black and white contrast filters already add extra density. Who on earth uses ND's for black and white work? I don't use em for anything.
 

BrianShaw

Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2005
Messages
16,526
Location
La-la-land
Format
Multi Format
DREW WILEY said:
Ordinary black and white contrast filters already add extra density. Who on earth uses ND's for black and white work? I don't use em for anything.
Click to expand...
… only when the filters are used. Not everyone uses contrast filters.

Others seem to use both ND and polarizer with B&W. You might be unique.
 

beemermark

Subscriber
Joined
Sep 21, 2008
Messages
869
Format
4x5 Format
Juan Valdenebro said:
Now, for subjects under direct sunlight, I recommend you to avoid metering, and just use 1/125 f/8 for ISO100 and 1/250 f/11 for ISO400. (Sunny f/16 is for slide film).
Click to expand...
Where do you live? Sunny 16 for me is 1/500 f/16~f22 for ISO 400. Do you develop your negatives normally. Heck that don't even matter, used to shoot slide and send to Kodak for Kodachrome (1/60th @ f16)
 

Alex Benjamin

Subscriber
Joined
Aug 8, 2018
Messages
2,463
Location
Montreal
Format
Multi Format
BrianShaw said:
Worrying about too much light in India but using fast film? Might want to re-think that. Slower film might be a better option
Click to expand...

Totally agree. I'd go with half 100 or 125 and half 400, or at least 1/3 100 and 2/3 400. You'll need the 400 for early-morning, early-evening outings and for general situations in which a fast film is called for, but bright sun, open air, you'll appreciate what the slower film will give you - smaller grain, lower contrast (depending on the film, of course), etc.

And don't worry, no matter how much film you take, you'll end up needing more . I learned that the hard way, and now I check up in advance where I can buy my films in the country/city I'm visiting.
 

Alex Benjamin

Subscriber
Joined
Aug 8, 2018
Messages
2,463
Location
Montreal
Format
Multi Format
Juan Valdenebro said:
(Sunny f/16 is for slide film)
Click to expand...

Never read that before. In Canada - not exactly "The Mega-Sunshine Country", sunny 16 works well in the winter because of the sun reflecting all over the place on the snow (it's actually at times easier to go with sunny 16 then to meter...). I've also used it with success in the summer when stuck without a meter.
 

Juan Valdenebro

Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2010
Messages
1,286
Location
South America
Format
Multi Format
When snow (or sand or water) reflects direct sunlight, of course we close a stop more.
But exposing B&W for direct sunlight using the sunny f/16 rule, is a great recipe for shadows without enough detail. Those images don't convey an open sunny day atmosphere, but a dark sad terror scene one, but YMMV.
That rule is too conservative, and cares well about not burning highlights in color slide film.
I use TMax400 and Tri-X400 all day years and decades ago. My exposure for direct sunlight with rich shadows isn't 1/250 f/11, but half a stop more light: 1/250 f/8 1/2. Of course, with the prudent development time recommended by Kodak. A lot of people develop longer and that's why they can't expose for clean shadows. And that's why Kodak has recommended sunny f/16 exposure too: to protect their buyers' film even if it's overdeveloped... Empty shadows is a small problem compared to blocked highlights.
Everyone should feel free to keep doing things the way they do.
 

Juan Valdenebro

Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2010
Messages
1,286
Location
South America
Format
Multi Format
ISO400 is perfect for intense sun too: no problem.
ISO100 is better for wide apertures for portraiture. But ISO100 is useless even for portraiture when light is kind of low. You'll need tripod for ISO100 in many situations.
I use one or two rolls of ISO100 for every ten rolls of ISO400.
 

Juan Valdenebro

Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2010
Messages
1,286
Location
South America
Format
Multi Format
beemermark said:
Where do you live? Sunny 16 for me is 1/500 f/16~f22 for ISO 400. Do you develop your negatives normally. Heck that don't even matter, used to shoot slide and send to Kodak for Kodachrome (1/60th @ f16)
Click to expand...
Yes: as I said, a good rule for slide film both for highlights control and for saturation...
I had my last Kodachromes developed in 2009.
B&W film is a different technology. You expose differently depending on development.
You can decide to use the sunny f/16 rule, but that doesn't mean that's the best you can do for your B&W negatives.
 

DREW WILEY

Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2011
Messages
13,933
Format
8x10 Format
Hi, Brian .... Contrast filters were probably purchased by B&W photographers at least a thousand to one over ND's and polarizers combined. ND popularity these days seems more a symptom of the digital camera rash or flea itch or whatever that is. Polarizers only work in relation to certain angles of the sun; and who the heck wants all the sparkle crushed out of a shot anyway? Mine stays in the lab near the copy stand if needed. I have no use for them outdoors. But then, I never trust any camera that takes charge of the exposures. I want to be in control of all that, especially if TMax is involved. Just developed a roll of 120 TMX100 a couple hours ago from a high contrast situation. FP4 is a lot more forgiving for a beginner. And guess good ole Triassic-X ain't bad if you don't mind grain bigger than buckshot.
 

Alex Benjamin

Subscriber
Joined
Aug 8, 2018
Messages
2,463
Location
Montreal
Format
Multi Format
Juan Valdenebro said:
You can decide to use the sunny f/16 rule, but that doesn't mean that's the best you can do for your B&W negatives.
Click to expand...

Don't think many people see it as a rule. More like a basic guide when stuck without a reliable meter, in conditions you know. I'm used to the light in Montreal and know when I'm in a sunny 16 situation and when I need to modulate. When traveling, I take both incident and spot meter since, of course, I'd like to do the best I can do for my B&W negatives .

Juan Valdenebro said:
SO400 is perfect for intense sun too: no problem.
Click to expand...

Of course it is. Again, there is no rule. It's a matter of preference, of what you're used to and comfortable with. I like taking out slower film because it give me something different and forces me to look differently. If OP decides to take only 400 film, it'll all be fine.
 

BrianShaw

Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2005
Messages
16,526
Location
La-la-land
Format
Multi Format
I don’t disagree, Drew. But this is getting out on a tangent. For the OP, who seems quite new to photography, it seems best success would be both slow and fast film… and putting the Canon A1 into an A mode and make some photos. I’ll bet that more than 95% will be generally acceptable to most people.

Personally, I’d take a bag of FP4+ and HP-5+ and see some sites. I detest being “confined” to fast speeds and small apertures, even for general photography. Or use appropriate contrast filters to tame the speed. And although I often shoot B&W “naked”, I’d suggested the OP get a yellow filter if one not already in possession.
 
Last edited:

DREW WILEY

Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2011
Messages
13,933
Format
8x10 Format
On those rare occasions I travel with just a Nikon and shoot handheld only, I shoot TMY400 exclusively, and simply leave a deep orange filter on it. But TTL metering systems don't always respond correctly with a strong filter in place. It really helps to have some serious practice prior to an important project. For portraits, I keep a light yellow-green filter in the kit. That pretty much covers it.
 

Sirius Glass

Subscriber
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Messages
50,364
Location
Southern California
Format
Multi Format

Fast film allows for larger f/stop numbers and therefore greater depths of field. What is wrong with that?
 

Sirius Glass

Subscriber
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Messages
50,364
Location
Southern California
Format
Multi Format

Polarizing filters darken the sky and brings out the clouds better.
 

Sirius Glass

Subscriber
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Messages
50,364
Location
Southern California
Format
Multi Format
Last edited:

Alex Benjamin

Subscriber
Joined
Aug 8, 2018
Messages
2,463
Location
Montreal
Format
Multi Format
Sirius Glass said:
Fast film allows for larger f/stop numbers and therefore greater depths of field. What is wrong with that?
Click to expand...

Absolutely nothing wrong with that. If OP wants to carry only 400 film, there won't be any problem for him coming back home with great picks - which is the point.

But nothing wrong with adding a few 100 films and trying them out just in case he ends up liking the look. He's going to shoot so much film, it's not like they are going to be wasted.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Menu
Log in
Register
Cookies are required to use this site. You must accept them to continue using the site. Learn more…