what meter

Smudger · Aug 17, 2016

KidA said:
I'm interested in a meter that has pretty much everything that the Sekonic L-408 has (including it's size and slimness!) with the addition of a centre-weighted reflected option. A 1 deg spot meter would be preferred over the 5 deg, and ability to measure closer than 50 cm (seems just a bit too far) would be nice also. I read the instruction manual for this thing and it really seems like something I can work in harmony with if I had the extra couple little things I've added.

The L 408 CAN be used at any distance under 50cm -but the viewfinder view will become blurry. It is just the optical design of the finder. The 10 degree circle stays sharp, so it is no problem to place your metering area.
My example needed plus 2/3 F correction out of the box to match Sunny 16.

Smudger · Aug 17, 2016

wiltw said:
Your camera's meter is a REFLECTED light meter...it will be fooled when either

your subject is brighter/darker than midtone grey (e.g. Finnish bride in white wedding gown fills frame, or deeply tanned groom in black tux fills frame)

your subject surroundings are considerably brighter/darker (e.g. snow scene, or in a coal mine) than average; for example your subject is a jet high in the sky, it is surrounded by cloudy white sky

An incident light meter will help to avoid what Kodak has called 'subject failure' exposure error.

"Subject Failure" -always make me smile..

Jeff Bradford · Aug 18, 2016

I have a Gossen Lunasix with 7/15 spot attachment. It seems to be perfectly calibrated even though I am using modern silver-oxide batteries in it. At one time I purchased every old light meter I came across (and weird battery adapters for some), attempting to find "the one". I have twenty or so that are not "the one". Anyway, the Gossen just seemed to work correctly every time I used it, so it is the one I use. I have a Gossen DigiFlash 2 that gets used occasionally to check camera meters against, but more often gets used for its thermometer function.

Bill Burk · Aug 18, 2016

CMoore said:
... I am still 3-6 months away from my darkroom (light at end of tunnel...!!)....

Haaa soon as you get to the light at the end of the tunnel you are going to go turn it off.

trondsi · Aug 18, 2016

I sometimes use a Weston Master V

Les Sarile · Aug 19, 2016

CMoore said:
Those of you That Do carry a meter...which do you use.?
I have always Relied on/Anticipated light via the on-board camera meter.

I use a Sekonic for studio flash setup only because there is no flash - external or in-camera, that can meter like the Pentax LX when it comes to particularly long exposures.

Terry Breedlove · Aug 19, 2016

I use the sunny 16 rule when just out shooting street or my granddaughter running around. I also have a Sekonic L-308 which is very affordable and accurate. Today i was playing with an app called the Pocket Light meter on my iPhone and testing it against the Sekonic and it was amazingly accurate. So much so that I paid the $1.99 to get rid of the ads.

Cycler · Aug 19, 2016

Weston Euromaster, used when working as 'lighting specialist' in an old building being investigated by local history group. I walked down the structure on top of occupation debris, actually about 4-5 metres deep! Clambering over roof timbering and attaching flash units & slaves to them. While pointing the Weston at every window & vent. Great point about investigating former slum tenements, few such dwellers EVER clean up after themselves. Thus the windows were so filthy light would have had to be preceded by a well thrown housebrick to get through!

RalphLambrecht · Aug 19, 2016

CMoore said:
Those of you That Do carry a meter...which do you use.?
I have always Relied on/Anticipated light via the on-board camera meter.
For you guys with the "typical" 35mm SLR
Nikon F2 .....Canon F1, A1
What meter do you carry outside.?
Do you use it a lot.?
Thank You

I use a Gossen LunaStar F2 with all my cameras.works with ambient or flash and always gets it spot on.However it loves to eat 9V block batteries in bulk.So, I went to rechargeables;no big.

John51 · Aug 19, 2016

Are there situations where reflected is better than incident reading?

etn · Aug 19, 2016

John51 said:
Are there situations where reflected is better than incident reading?

When your subject is too far away for incident reading, you have no other choice but reflected metering. (The typical case is landscape photography).

With practice, you can make reflected metering work 100% of the time. Most users of "modern" cameras (in particular, DSLR with all bells and whistles)
only use reflected because the camera has a good built-in meter, and they do not need (or want) anything else in spite of the advantages
they could get out of it. I'd bet many of the "younger generation" photographers (apart from guys like us using manual cameras)
never even heard of incident metering. This does not prevent them to successfully tackle challenging lighting situations.

Both incident and reflective metering have specific advantages and disadvantages. A good summary is given here:
http://www.sekonic.com/germany/classroom/meteringtechniques/benefitsofincident.aspx
You can also google "incident vs reflective metering", there are lots of material on the internet about this topic.

Hope this helps,

Etienne

etn · Aug 19, 2016

PS. I hope I will not be banned from APUG for having said the D-word...

Alan Gales · Aug 19, 2016

John51 said:
Are there situations where reflected is better than incident reading?

Like edn says, if you are too far away to use an incident meter.

A spot meter is also a reflective meter. Spot meters are often used with large format sheet film because you can use the Zone System for exposure and develop each sheet of film separately. I use a Pentax spot with my 35nn and medium format cameras simply because it is the meter I use with my 8x10 camera and I'm used to using it.

Pioneer · Aug 19, 2016

Sunny 16 when I am just having fun and I know the film has lots of latitude.

Built in meter when I have it and it is trustworthy. This can run from using matrix, centerweight or spot depending on the camera.

Weston Master IV when the camera has no meter or when I am validating the in camera meter.

Pentax Spotmeter when I know I will use the zone system to develop.

I carry a grey card with me all the time and I use it frequently, though I may change that exposure based on some visual need or want

I try to ensure that my shadows have detail, how much is dependent on how important, then let the rest fall where it will fall. If doing this will result in a big bright spot then I try to recompose.

My two favorite books on the topic is Bryan Peterson's Understanding Exposure and Roger Hick's Perfect Exposure. If you really want to use the zone system than pick up The Confused Photographer's Guide to Photographic Exposure and the Simplified Zone System by Bahman Farzad. The Print by Ansel Adams is a wonderful book as well but can be a bit confusing for a beginner.

EDIT - Additionally, if you choose to read The Print then you should also get the second of the Trilogy, The Negative.

Terry Breedlove · Aug 20, 2016

I use incident all the time when shooting landscapes. Even when I am shooting at a distance. If i know what my exposure is where I am standing I can make a pretty good guess at the distance. Just last week i did this. I metered right where I was standing but I was in the shade under heavy rain clouds. In the distance over the ocean the sun was out. I figured it was about two stops brighter. Well I had my red filter on which kills about two stops of light so I just set my camera at the meter reading from my own location and shot. Exposure was perfect. Oh and I bracketed like all hell LOL just to be safe.

BrianShaw · Aug 20, 2016

trondsi said:
I sometimes use a Weston Master V

I sometimes use a Weston Master III

CMoore · Aug 20, 2016

Terry Breedlove said:
I use incident all the time when shooting landscapes. Even when I am shooting at a distance. If i know what my exposure is where I am standing I can make a pretty good guess at the distance. Just last week i did this. I metered right where I was standing but I was in the shade under heavy rain clouds. In the distance over the ocean the sun was out. I figured it was about two stops brighter. Well I had my red filter on which kills about two stops of light so I just set my camera at the meter reading from my own location and shot. Exposure was perfect. Oh and I bracketed like all hell LOL just to be safe.

Regards the incident meter.....Suppose you meter a statue, of a man, that is outside in the sun. Maybe his head/face are getting direct sun, his waist not quite as direct sun, and maybe his knees and feet are getting some shadow. Do you meter for the shadows, take the two extremes...how do you best use the incident.?
Thanks

Chan Tran · Aug 20, 2016

I have a Minolta Flashmeter III and a Minolta Flashmeter VI and between the 2 of them they can measure incident, wide angle reflective, spot, measure at the film plane, thru the eye piece of a camera with both flash and ambient light. However when I go out to take pictures I almost never bring either one even if the camera I use don't have a meter.

Les Sarile · Aug 20, 2016

CMoore said:
Regards the incident meter.....Suppose you meter a statue, of a man, that is outside in the sun. Maybe his head/face are getting direct sun, his waist not quite as direct sun, and maybe his knees and feet are getting some shadow. Do you meter for the shadows, take the two extremes...how do you best use the incident.?
Thanks

First consideration always is what is most important to you and how should it be exposed. Everything else will fall where they may but can be helped in post/print.
Second most important is what film you are using and what is it's latitude.

In this case assume the head/face are the most important and you are using C41 with typical great latitude. Is the statue white and glossy or gray and not reflective? If it is white and glossy then you may want it to be at least a stop or more higher then middle gray. Not blown out and certainly "bright". if the shadow area are three of four stops below that then it will be easy to recover - well within the latitude range of typical C41.

If you were using slide film then you still expose for the important part of the scene but maybe a half stop - but less then a full stop, over middle gray. Everything else will fall where they may because slides have a much narrower latitude.

Les Sarile · Aug 20, 2016

Understanding your equipment's metering characteristics is of course very important but it is only half the equation as you must also know your film's exposure latitude.

As an example Lomography 100 film. I determined it is the typical wide latitude color C41 type in my first roll after taking an exposure range test.

The camera middle gray is at 0 - 1/60 and I over and under exposed so many stops each way. You will notice it has much more recovery available in overexposure which is typical of most all C41 films. Others like Portra have even more range.

So knowing this fact, I can freely take a shot and more confident overexposing rather then underexposing. A typical snapshot with this film in direct sunlight, shiny objects, dark shadows using my camera's averaging meter is never a problem as shown below which I overexposed by at least one stop knowing I can easily work with the results.

CMoore · Aug 20, 2016

Les Sarile said:
First consideration always is what is most important to you and how should it be exposed. Everything else will fall where they may but can be helped in post/print.
Second most important is what film you are using and what is it's latitude.

In this case assume the head/face are the most important and you are using C41 with typical great latitude. Is the statue white and glossy or gray and not reflective? If it is white and glossy then you may want it to be at least a stop or more higher then middle gray. Not blown out and certainly "bright". if the shadow area are three of four stops below that then it will be easy to recover - well within the latitude range of typical C41.

If you were using slide film then you still expose for the important part of the scene but maybe a half stop - but less then a full stop, over middle gray. Everything else will fall where they may because slides have a much narrower latitude.

Yeah...Sorry, i guess that was my real question. Like with my Sekonic L-308, with the dome, measuring incident...not sure why i am having a hard time with this, but...it gives you an 18% reading just like you get when it is set to reflective, or when you use the in camera meter.?
If you hold the dome at the statues face and point it back to where the camera will be, it is suggesting 18% also.?
Thanks

MattKing · Aug 21, 2016

CMoore said:
Yeah...Sorry, i guess that was my real question. Like with my Sekonic L-308, with the dome, measuring incident...not sure why i am having a hard time with this, but...it gives you an 18% reading just like you get when it is set to reflective, or when you use the in camera meter.?
If you hold the dome at the statues face and point it back to where the camera will be, it is suggesting 18% also.?
Thanks

Incident meters don't suggest particular percentages.
They read how much light is falling on them, and then they tell you that for a film of a particular EI, what exposure settings you need to set on the camera to create negatives that will print so that middle grays come out looking middle gray, shadows that are fairly dark come out looking fairly dark and brighter areas that are bright come out looking that way.
The most reliable response will be to the middle gray tones. Something like items with reflectances ranging between 12% and 18%. In very contrasty situations, your incident reading may leave you with shadows that print too dark, and highlights that print too light. In those situations you can use a few tricks to tame the results - like changing development, adjusting exposure to favour one end over the other and printing techniques like burning, dodging, flashing and masking.

CMoore · Aug 21, 2016

Aahhhhh...Great.
Thank You

jeremy rundle · Aug 25, 2016

Really the only meter worth having is a Weston meter, I prefer the Euro Master

Bill Burk · Aug 31, 2016

jeremy rundle said:
Really the only meter worth having is a Weston meter, I prefer the Euro Master

The Weston is a go-to meter for me as well, I carry one in my back pants pocket a lot. Felt sheepish, like one of the teenagers I was chaperoning (you know, the kids always have cracked screens on their cellphones), when I sat down at lunch on the way to Yosemite and smashed the glass of mine on the early summer trip... I was freaking out about having to use the flakey SEI I brought until I got out my gear in my tent and found I had also packed a perfectly working Pentax Spotmeter V with fresh batteries (I'd forgotten I had packed it).

What a joy it was to use that spotmeter when I was "forced" to. This is the analog meter, with the needle that just locks in positively and immediately on a reading when you press the button. Nothing else like it.

Sure it was bulky when I was carrying a minimal outfit... but other than the funny lump in my back... I had a great time.

what meter

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