what meter

Paul Howell · May 25, 2016

For years I used a 1% spot meter and a Weston Ranger 9 or Master IV along with the internal meters on my 35mm cameras. Then I started to us a 35mm with matrix meter as my basic meter for MF and LF. I started with a Sigma SA 7 with 50mm 2.8 then moved to a Minolta 600SI with 35 to 70, I can switch between matrix or spot and match the view of the MF or LF with zoom. Then again there times when a incident meter works best and I use the Weston Master IV with a inversion cone, or if backpacking I will still carry the Ranger 9. .

MartinCrabtree · May 25, 2016

Weston Master II w/invercone if the camera meter doesn't work or lacking one. Sometimes it just works better than center weighted.

CMoore · May 25, 2016

I am still very new to all of "this"...so let me ask a beginner question.
My:
Nikon F2S
Canon F1 New
Canon A-1
Canon AT-1
When is the camera meter not going to do a good job.?
Again, this would be Outside/Street/Land-scrape/Hobby type photography.
So far, it seems like when I DO have a problem, it is always with underexposing.
Thank You

MartinCrabtree · May 25, 2016

Overwhelmingly bright or dark scenes are the biggest problem.

Paul Howell · May 25, 2016

CMoore said:
I am still very new to all of "this"...so let me ask a beginner question.
My:
Nikon F2S
Canon F1 New
Canon A-1
Canon AT-1
When is the camera meter not going to do a good job.?
Again, this would be Outside/Street/Land-scrape/Hobby type photography.
So far, it seems like when I DO have a problem, it is always with underexposing.
Thank You

You may want to spend time and effort to test all your cameras and figure the personal film speed is for each. I would start with a blank white wall, sunny, about mid day set your ISO (ASA) to 100, each ought to read around 125 at F 16. Then test with film, there are lots of links on how to test your gear to find your personal or working film speed. In general if you find that your negatives are underexposed you need to shoot at a lower ISO (ASA) example you shoot with Tmax 400 at 400, you might to set your ISO (ASA) to 200. You can look up your film characteristic curve to see how the manufacturer rates the film with different developers. I use Foma 200, in D76 it is rated at 100. Once you established a working speed for one camera as a reference you can test the others. I shoot with Minolta, Marianda, and Konica, in past with Sigma, the Sgimas SA7 and SA9 with both spot on, the others all have different personal ISOs.

Alan Gales · May 25, 2016

CMoore said:
I am still very new to all of "this"...so let me ask a beginner question.
My:
Nikon F2S
Canon F1 New
Canon A-1
Canon AT-1
When is the camera meter not going to do a good job.?
Again, this would be Outside/Street/Land-scrape/Hobby type photography.
So far, it seems like when I DO have a problem, it is always with underexposing.
Thank You

Well, the good news is that you are underexposing instead of overexposing. Consistent overexposure is a sign of being a "Hipster".

Most 35mm cameras have center-bottom weighted meters because in landscape orientation the ground is usually darker than the sky unless there is snow or you are on a white sand beach. Of course holding the camera in portrait position can change the reading. Easy enough to meter in landscape and then set the camera manually for portrait. You need to learn your meter which you will with practice. For tricky situations you can bracket. When first learning I'd take a shot at my determined exposure plus a shot at 2 stops over and 2 stops underexposure. I burned up some film but I learned how to get better results with my meter. I prefer hand held meters but I shot for many years using the meter in my old Contax 139.

MattKing · May 26, 2016

Consistent under-exposure is often as much a sign of an overly optimistic photographer as it is a problem with a meter.

Learn what the metering pattern of your meter is.

Point your camera so the meter reads what you want it to.

Adjust the reading if your subject is either darker or lighter than "average".

CMoore · May 26, 2016

I am not consistently underexposing. My negatives usually look pretty good.
What I Am Saying, is that when I Do make a mistake, it is underexposing.
I have not yet used the cameras enough times to know how much to overexpose.
Last September, the city was turning 10 acres of vacant land into a low-key park, and I took some pics.
It was noon time, in a plowed field, no clouds, with a Tractor/Grader sitting in the field of plowed earth. I overexposed (at the shutter) by one stop, but the tractor was still a bit washed out...not enough exposure.
I am wondering (in some situations) how much easier it might be to second guess a hand-held meter form 2005 instead of camera meter from 1975. Maybe that was a good situation for a gray card.?
I most likely just need more experience with extreme light situations, with a certain camera and film.

Paul Howell · May 26, 2016

As noted it could be the meter pattern, if you are thinking about a current meter I would suggest an incident meter, light falling on the sensor, is not affected by a bright sky. My Mirandas EEs are very heavy bottom weighted so the just opposite, I can over expose, the EE also have spot reading so I can take a second reading and adjust, or just bracket.

Alan Gales · May 26, 2016

CMoore said:
Last September, the city was turning 10 acres of vacant land into a low-key park, and I took some pics.
It was noon time, in a plowed field, no clouds, with a Tractor/Grader sitting in the field of plowed earth. I overexposed (at the shutter) by one stop, but the tractor was still a bit washed out...not enough exposure.

It was noon time? That is your problem.

Around noon is the most contrasty time of day and the worst time to shoot if it's sunny outside. Film can't handle the extreme differences like our eyes can.

rubbernglue · May 26, 2016

I use a Pentax 1 degree digital spot meter, a seconik l-358 and an old Metrawatt Metrastar, and sometimes the built-in meter if there is one

The spotmeter is mostly used with large format, or in somewhat difficult conditions. The old Metrastar is from 1961 and followed an old Bronica S that I was given a some years back (2009?), and I have used it since then as a primary meter until last year. I was very surprised to notice that the metrastar uses PX625 batteries but functions perfectly with regular PX625A at 1.5v!! It will remain my backup for a long time as it is very nice to use and can take readings in lower light than the seconik.

tokam · May 26, 2016

The Profisix (SBC) is a cracker meter. I justify mine because I have some non-metered bodies. You have to be a little bit careful when using the full on spot meter attachment as it could be mistaken for a weapon, or worse still, for an old 8mm cine camera.

k.hendrik · May 26, 2016

sekonic L758D.

DREW WILEY · May 26, 2016

After awhile one just gets accustomed to a specific meter. But I have personally standardized on Pentax digital spotmeters, and use them for everything from 35mm to 8x10, color as well as black and white. Even with the Nikon gear, I find this much more reliable than TTL metering.

nsouto · May 27, 2016

With the F6 and F100, the inbuilt meter - usually in spot.
Also with the F2AS - it has a metering pattern I can remember easily.
All other bodies, either a Pentax Spot meter or a Lunasix F incident, depending on what I'm doing.
For flash I stick with the inbuilt meter unless I'm using the F2AS in which case the Lunasix F does the job.
With the MF cameras, the Pentax Spot meter.

John Koehrer · May 27, 2016

And, if you have too much sky in the composition, the camera will have you underexpose the lower portion
of the picture. Correction is to point the camera down to reduce the amount of sky, then adjust your compensation but not the settings.

Sirius Glass · May 27, 2016

John Koehrer said:
And, if you have too much sky in the composition, the camera will have you underexpose the lower portion
of the picture. Correction is to point the camera down to reduce the amount of sky, then adjust your compensation but not the settings.

What he said.

Meter the scene or subject without sky in the light meter's view and your photographs will be perfect. Most of the nonsense about endless testing and/or personal exposure [READ: use half the film speed] is to compensate for the lousy technique of metering with the sky in view.

Mike Roe · Aug 17, 2016

k.hendrik said:
sekonic L758D.

me too. very capable

benjiboy · Aug 17, 2016

I suggest you learn how to use the cameras built in meters before you consider buying a hand held one.

etn · Aug 17, 2016

k.hendrik said:
sekonic L758D.

Mike Roe said:
me too. very capable

+1 on this. In my case I use a Kenko 2100, simply because I found a second-hand one in good shape at a good price.
The L758 is also a great meter, as is the Gossen Starlite 2. All 3 in the same league in terms of features, weight, and capabilities.

benjiboy said:
I suggest you learn how to use the cameras built in meters before you consider buying a hand held one.

A hand-held one will also have a learning curve. Buying an external to alleviate learning how to use cameras built-in meters is betting on the wrong horse in my opinion.
However, it makes sense if one owns and uses several cameras whose built-in meters show different behaviors. Using the same external meter with all cameras
allows for more consistency.

As a side note, built-in meters generally compensate for filters, macro rings, etc. External meters require to compute all compensations by hand.
(can be tricky when doing macro)

My 2 cents,
Etienne

Mike Roe · Aug 17, 2016

I wanted a meter to work with flash ratios but I end up using it very much with film. I suppose you could call it zonish system. the L758d does a great job of averaging out several spot meter readings. I will use it by choosing tonal ranges to meter and then sometimes weight my choices to how I want the negative to appear. For instance if I am very interested in bright cloud detail and less in ground detail I may meter more heavily on the mid and high tones and average those while watching how far off that average is from a darker single spot meter. My Pentax 67's prism meter agrees with my handheld in individual readings but the average function of the handheld really helps fine tune the exposure. Plus the 758 has studio applications in flash ratio and flash/strobe auto firing with pocketwizards.

benjiboy · Aug 17, 2016

If the O.P. buys a Sekonic L758D he will be even more confused, if he can't get correct exposure with a Nikon F2 and a Canon New F1 what chance does he stand with a 758D ? it's like giving someone who can't drive a Chevy or a Ford a Ferrari.

Poisson Du Jour · Aug 17, 2016

My long-standing choice of meter has been the Sekonic L758D multispot. A long time ago ('06 I think) I used it mostly in incident mode. Somewhere along the long and winding road I switched to spot and multispot and this is just about the only mode I use now for 6x6 / 6x7 / 6x9 transparency work. The Sekonic is also used with my Hasselblad 503CXI, and ZeroImage pinhole camera. My elderly EOS 1N suffices with its own armoury of onboard meters and doesn't need any pestering from me!

I am only answering the question you presented in your post. I do not recommend you buy this meter (Sekonic L758D) unless and until you have thoroughly covered the theory of metering, both incident and multispot. Before that even, understanding how a camera's onboard meter relates to and reads the scene must also be understood.

Just for reading, a good basic guide to manual, handheld metering is The Negative (one of Saint Ansel's works), although the Zone System is not relevant for small format (rollfilm) work and irritates/puts off many beginners. There is one example photograph in that book that clearly demonstrates multispot metering and the expected outcome.

CMoore · Aug 17, 2016

I bought an L-308.
When reading reflected, it is a bit faster than my cameras (which pretty much agree with each other).
When set to incident, it agree pretty closely with the camera meters.
This comparison was only for about an hour, but it seemed very consistent.
It was good to see that my camera meters seem to be accurate.
Will mostly use the Sekoinc with my Mamiya RB .....whenever i get that going.

wiltw · Aug 17, 2016

CMoore said:
I am still very new to all of "this"...so let me ask a beginner question.
My:
Nikon F2S
Canon F1 New
Canon A-1
Canon AT-1
When is the camera meter not going to do a good job.?
Again, this would be Outside/Street/Land-scrape/Hobby type photography.
So far, it seems like when I DO have a problem, it is always with underexposing.
Thank You

Your camera's meter is a REFLECTED light meter...it will be fooled when either

your subject is brighter/darker than midtone grey (e.g. Finnish bride in white wedding gown fills frame, or deeply tanned groom in black tux fills frame)
your subject surroundings are considerably brighter/darker (e.g. snow scene, or in a coal mine) than average; for example your subject is a jet high in the sky, it is surrounded by cloudy white sky

An incident light meter will help to avoid what Kodak has called 'subject failure' exposure error.

what meter

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