What long lens for 4x5 should I go for? 210/240/250/270/300

Hi, I have a 4x5 camera with a 135mm lens, and a 90mm on the way. I would like to also have a long lens for portraits.
I’ve been mainly looking for 210mm as they are the more common length, but the are some 250/270/300 mm lenses for a better or similar price than some 210.
Another reason I would like to ask for advice is that according to some charts a 210mm would be equivalent to 63mm on 35mm film, and I like to shoot portraits with 80 to 100 mm focal length which would be equivalent to 270 and 300mm on 4x5.
Are there any lenses I should stay clear away from? I know that I should avoid the 270 rotelar as it has a small image circle for 4x5, but is there any other ones?
From what I found the Fujinon 250 f6.3 is very affordable, similarly to the Fujinon 210 f5.6
So far the list of lenses in my budget are:
Fujinon w 300 f5.6
Fujinon T 300 f8
Schneider symmar-s 300 f5.6
Schneider tele arton 270 f5.5
Schneider tele arton 250 f5.6
Fujinon sf 250 f5.6
Fujinon w 250 f5.6/f6.3/f6.7
Schneider symmar 240 f5.6
Fujinon w 210 f5.6
Nikkor w 210 f5.6
Schneider symmar-s 210 f5.6

Moderator edit: this question is also posted on Reddit

As per the responses you've already received on Reddit, you need to factor in the maximum bellows extension your camera offers. On Reddit you stated you use a Graflex Super Speed Graphic. This is relevant to include in your question.

A camera with more limited bellows extension makes tele designs more attractive. On the other hand, they do sometimes come with a penalty w.r.t. optical quality, and their image circles are much smaller than non-tele designs of the same focal length. I personally have a Tele Arton (the 360 IIRC), but in all honesty I consider it a weak performer. Checking the specs on the 250 Tele Arton, it officially does not cover 4x5". I'm not familiar with any 'tele arton 270'. Does it exist?

I also have a Symmar-S 300/5.6 which is a great lens optically, but it may be relatively heavy for your camera. I'm not familiar with the Graflex camera, but some cameras can become a little wobbly with a heavy lens on the front stand.

The Symmar-S 210/5.6 is a great lens (I have one of those as well) also on 4x5", but it's not particularly long. It doesn't feel quite as long as the 80-100mm lens on a 35mm camera that you refer to as a benchmark. Then again, you can do marvelous portraits with it - provided the model sits still enough.

If you like the perspective of 85mm for 35mm, you might like something in to 240 to 250 range for 4X5. The two I have are optically superb and very lightweight : a 250/9 Fujinon A and the 240/9 G-Claron. Anything "tele" is going to be bulky. You probably wouldn't want a Fuji SF because it's "soft focus". The Fuji 250/6.7 is a great lens in no.1 shutter, but getting hard to find in good condition.

If you downshift to 210 mm instead, there is an abundance of good lenses to choose from at reasonable pricing.

Be aware that many lenses 250 and longer use bulky no.3 shutters. A very nice petite 300mm lens is the Nikon M version.

koraks said:

As per the responses you've already received on Reddit, you need to factor in the maximum bellows extension your camera offers. On Reddit you stated you use a Graflex Super Speed Graphic. This is relevant to include in your question.

A camera with more limited bellows extension makes tele designs more attractive. On the other hand, they do sometimes come with a penalty w.r.t. optical quality, and their image circles are much smaller than non-tele designs of the same focal length. I personally have a Tele Arton (the 360 IIRC), but in all honesty I consider it a weak performer. Checking the specs on the 250 Tele Arton, it officially does not cover 4x5". I'm not familiar with any 'tele arton 270'. Does it exist?

I also have a Symmar-S 300/5.6 which is a great lens optically, but it may be relatively heavy for your camera. I'm not familiar with the Graflex camera, but some cameras can become a little wobbly with a heavy lens on the front stand.

The Symmar-S 210/5.6 is a great lens (I have one of those as well) also on 4x5", but it's not particularly long. It doesn't feel quite as long as the 80-100mm lens on a 35mm camera that you refer to as a benchmark. Then again, you can do marvelous portraits with it - provided the model sits still enough.

Click to expand...

Thank you, forgot to add what camera i have.
The 270mm tele arton i found is this one:

DREW WILEY said:

the 240/9 G-Claron

Click to expand...

This indeed is very nicely lightweight, has good (excellent) coverage and can often be found at an attractive price even sometimes mounted in a shutter. Its only real drawback is that the image is rather dim at f/9.

Capan said:

The 270mm tele arton i found is this one:

Click to expand...

So it evidently exists! I'm not familiar with it, but if it performs anything like the 360 I have, I wouldn't recommend it. And if the design is similar to the 250 I found the specs of, the coverage will barely be sufficient for 4x5", which would make me hesitate as well.

It could be relevant to ask what type of portraits. If soft and pleasant focus is more important than detail the answer could change a bit. For example the single element Wollaston landscape lens has been extensively used for soft portraits, as have the Petzvals.

If you make a Wollaston landscape lens out of a $10 77mm +10 diopter, it can cover 4x5, and close to 8x10. It's a bit of work, you have to mount it in a tube, and then the aperture and shutter goes in front of the lens. I'm working on one currently for medium format. But I'm no mechanical genius and have managed it just fine. Working aperture is in the ~f/5.6 range and with only one element it's quite light. It would not be a long lens on 4x5 if you used a +10. Closer to normal lens. You'd want a +3 diopter for 300mm.

Just a DIY idea, I know it isn't for everyone.

loccdor said:

It could be relevant to ask what type of portraits. If soft and pleasant focus is more important than detail the answer could change a bit. For example the single element Wollaston landscape lens has been extensively used for soft portraits, as have the Petzvals.

If you make a Wollaston landscape lens out of a $10 77mm +10 diopter, it can cover 4x5, and close to 8x10. It's a bit of work, you have to mount it in a tube, and then the aperture and shutter goes in front of the lens. I'm working on one currently for medium format. But I'm no mechanical genius and have managed it just fine. Working aperture is in the ~f/5.6 range and with only one element it's quite light. It would not be a long lens on 4x5 if you used a +10. Closer to normal lens. You'd want a +3 diopter for 300mm.

Just a DIY idea, I know it isn't for everyone.

Click to expand...

I would like to have a sharp lens, as if I want is soft I can just add a filter.
I don’t really have good access to stuff for making a diy lens. That why I want to buy most stuff now and have it shipped all in one.

There's also the 270mm f/6.3 Nikkor-T ED. Coverage on 4x5 will be tight (160mm image circle at f/22 and infinity, but probably OK for portraits). Any tele will be heavy, but then again any of the lenses on your list in a Copal 3 will also be quite massive.

I don't know why Drew persists in calling the 240mm Fujinon-A a 250mm lens. Fuji always called it a 240mm, and that's how it's marked. Unless Fuji made him a special lens...

Capan said:

I would like to have a sharp lens, as if I want is soft I can just add a filter.
I don’t really have good access to stuff for making a diy lens. That why I want to buy most stuff now and have it shipped all in one.

Click to expand...

Very reasonable! Good luck.

I've always found It best to buy gear when it becomes available at the price and in the condition that you're after.

If it helps, there are no right or wrong or good or bad focal lengths, so just pick up what you can, when you can, give it a go and enjoy it.

MARTIE said:

I've always found It best to buy gear when it becomes available at the price and in the condition that you're after.

If it helps, there are no right or wrong or good or bad focal lengths, so just pick up what you can, when you can, give it a go and enjoy it.

Click to expand...

I am shopping on yahoo auctions. In my country the price limit for a single parcel is 400 usd including shipping. The issue is we only get 4 per year, so I would like to take advantage and buy a long lens to go with the 90 f5.6 I got. I guess I have a budget of 150, 180 max.
There is a Schneider 240 f5.6 for 150$, a couple of Fujinon 250 f 6.3 in varying conditions from 100 to 170$, a Schneider tele-arton 250 f5.6 for 180 and a Fujinon T 300 f8 for 160$. This one’s can be bought right now, there are others which auction ends these next days.

Of the lenses mentioned I would start with the Schneider Symmar 240 F5.6 for your camera.

Steve - I'm always getting the marketed focal lengths of the Fuji A and Schneider GC mixed up, since I use them interchangeably. I'd have to go to the tech sheets for the exact focal lengths of either - the advertised specs are rounded off. But in those specs sheets, the rated image circle of the GC is based on graphics repro standards far more conservative than for general shooting; In the real world, they both perform just the same and will easily cover 8X10.

The only significant differences are that the Fuji A 250 is in no.0 shutter and is multi-coated, whille the GC 240 is in no.1 shutter and single-coated - a very slight difference in contrast. Both are optically exceptional all the way from near-macro to infinity. It's hard to find a bargain on the Fuji, so the G-Claron might be more appealing on tight budget.

But he's already thinking about the Fuji 250/6.3, which will be a little brighter. The 250/6.7 has the advantage of being usable on 8x10 format as well; but since that's no secret, it's apt to be more expensive too.

But the general-purpose studio plasmats like the Schneider 240/5.6 are huge draft horse size lenses in no.3 shutter which are going to be very clumsy in the field, really a horrible choice for a field camera, and simply too heavy for most 4x5 front standards to support well. The longest Symmar S in a no.1 shutter is the 210/5.6 - a lens with a lovely rendering but not quite as crisp as later equivalents; it also requires large 77mm filters.

Besk said:

Of the lenses mentioned I would start with the Schneider Symmar 240 F5.6 for your camera.

Click to expand...

It is quite an old example https://auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/e1206457890

Between 1963 and 1965 and just a top speed of 200, though I don’t know if I would ever need 250, 400 or 500.

longer than i like for portraits...but lovely lenses
G Claron 305
Nikkor M 300
Fuji 300 C
& of course the Commercial Ektar 12 & 14"

Since you are asking about portraits, a lot of people like less sharp lenses, and there are many, such as the Fujinar and Fujinon series in 210mm, 240mm, and 300mm -- usually f4.5.

Then there are the various SF lenses from Fuji, Rodenstock and others.

Then there are the DIY portrait lenses made from Close-up lenses -- usually attached to a Copal #3 shutter.

I think my main options are:

Symmar 240 f5.6, year 63-65

Fujinon T 300 f8 (I think multi coated as it has the lettering on the side and not front)

​

FUJINON W 1:6.7/250mm, a bit rough looking, though it looks like it is only haze and schneideritis (picture attached). AND, I have to win the auction…

And then there are 2 more lenses with fungus, one for 100$ (FUJINON W 250mm f6.3) and a Symmar-S 5.6/300mm MC that is for auction, but not many people is following the publication.

xkaes said:

Since you are asking about portraits, a lot of people like less sharp lenses, and there are many, such as the Fujinar and Fujinon series in 210mm, 240mm, and 300mm -- usually f4.5.

Then there are the various SF lenses from Fuji, Rodenstock and others.

Then there are the DIY portrait lenses made from Close-up lenses -- usually attached to a Copal #3 shutter.

Click to expand...

The thing is, I want something that is versatile, I can always make a sharp lens soft, but not the other way around. Plus, I can just get a lens with fungus and repair it myself, it will end up softer.

@Capan Check the bellows draw on your camera. It could make anything around 300mm to be, ummm, a challenge. Unless it’s a tele lens.

I don’t want to be “that guy”, but for serious portraiture you might want to investigate a different camera.

BrianShaw said:

@Capan Check the bellows draw on your camera. It could make anything around 300mm to be, ummm, a challenge. Unless it’s a tele lens.

I don’t want to be “that guy”, but for serious portraiture you might want to investigate a different camera.

Click to expand...

The manual says it can use a 15 inch lens, so 380mm. White that in mind I am leaning towards a 300mm tele, or a 250mm normal lens.
I know this camera isn’t the best for portrait and studio, but I would like to have a set of lenses for the future.
And I don’t mind at all any criticism, I am new and eager to learn.

Capan said:

The manual says it can use a 15 inch lens

Click to expand...

The manual specifically says 15-inch telephoto. The bellows draw is about 12.5 inches. So a regular 300mm would work at infinity but not much else. Have you considered a lens contemporary to the camera? Perhaps there is a rangefinder cam too.

The 270mm f5.5 Tele-Arton certainly exists - I have one! Actually, I like it. For most situations I much prefer my 300mm lens, but specifically for portraiture the Tele-Arton is quite nice. The synchro-compur aperture has 10 blades and is nicely rounded. I have not tried any other copies and I don't know anyone else with one - my experience is limited to a sample size of one. I've also never tried any of the other Tele-Arton lenses. Considering that you have limited bellows draw I don't see anything wrong with trying one out if you have the opportunity. Photo attached for reference, it's FP4.

It does have drawbacks. It's big and heavy compared to a symmetrical lens design, the shutter is old and may need work, and you will not get modern optical performance. The image circle is 178mm at infinity. Since you mentioned versatility, I would not call this a versatile lens. I also wouldn't call it a specialist lens - it's a compromise lens. I don't mind the compromises, but it's not part of my regular usage either.

While you may have enough bellows draw for a 300mm lens at infinity, you will certainly not be shooting portraiture at infinity. You'll need a shorter focal length or a telephoto design.

I have one of the newer Tele-Arton 5.5 lenses and its pretty nice. I also have a 300mm Tele-Xenar, but I've harly shot anything with it. The 300 is pretty uncommon and I've only seen it in uncoated variety. My later Tele-Arton is multi coated and isn't too large. It bellows requirements are pretty low and is very usable with 300mm of bellows. Front swing or tilt is a pain with tele lenses, but on your camera I don't expect you to find much use for that.