What is your 2-bath fixer workflow for silver gelatin printing?

BHuij

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I'm finally coming around on the benefits of 2-bath fixing, which I've resisted for a long time due to very limited darkroom counter space. I use TF-5. Trying to decide on an exact workflow, I'm leaning towards the following:

1. Start keeping separate bottles of fixer for film and paper. Film fixer gets a time-to-clear test when I'm developing a roll/sheet of film, and the final fix time will be 2x the clear time until it's annoyingly long or the fixer has passed its published capacity (TF-5). Alternatively.
2. For paper, keep two bottles of working strength TF-5 (standard 1+3 dilution in the published documentation).
3. After developer and water stop, fiber paper gets 1 minute in fixer bath #1, then goes into a large water holding bath until the end of the print session (generally no more than 2 hours; I can only print when my kids are asleep for the night)
4. At the end of the print session, all "keeper" prints get 1 additional minute in fixer bath #2, then a quick rinse, selenium toner, hypo clearing agent, and a final wash.
5. At some point, bath #1 is discarded, bath #2 becomes bath #1, and fresh fixer is mixed up to be the new bath #2. Presumably I'd want to have some kind of test for bath #1 to determine when it's ready to be disposed of. Is a film clearing test at the beginning of a print session workable for this test? What's the best way, in your opinion, to determine when bath #1 is done? Simply tracking the number of 8x10s I've put through it seems kind of problematic, because bath #2 will already have some, probably variable, number of sheets through it by the time it gets downgraded to bath #1. Open to suggestions here.
 

Rick A

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For FB paper, I go with two minutes in first fix then two minutes in second fix, then into water rinse and drain until I'm finished then a couple of minutes in HCA and off to final wash . After ten 8x10 prints the first fix is dumped and second fix moves up to first place and fresh second fix is used. I use EcoPro Neutral 1+7 dilution. Ilford claims you can use film strength fix in a single bath and skip the second fix.
 

Paul Howell

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I don't use a 2 bath for RC, a simple one bath, as I use standard fix 2 minutes, I use hypo check to make sure fixer stays fixed. FB I do use a 2 bath system. I fix first bath 3 minutes second bath 2 minutes. After a printing session I dump the first bath and second bath becomes the first bath. I watch the number of prints and use hypo check. If using rapid fix, then just one bath.
 

pentaxuser

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I use a 2 bath fixer in my Nova slot processor. 30 secs in bath one and 30 secs immediately after in bath 2 but I have only ever done RC prints so the relevance of this may no apply

pentaxuser
 

Philippe-Georges

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For FB paper: 2 times 3 min in a neutral-to-alkalic C-41 fixer by Fuji-Hunt, then a good rinse, 2 min in 2% Na2SO3, 3 min in K.R.S.T. 1+6, 2min K.H.C., final wash following the Ilford method.
 

RalphLambrecht

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attached is my workflow

This is my process:
 

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otto.f

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My FB prints are 30 years old, alive and kicking, and I never did 2 baths fixing. I started with 2 bath fixing films when T-grain came around and films stayed magenta if not.
 
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BHuji,

Your methods look good, just a couple of observations:

For fixing film, I usually just do a clearing test for a particular film and fixer combination (e.g., 320Tri-X in Ilford Rapid Fixer 1+4) and then fix all my film for 4x the clearing time. Yes, I know that 2x is enough, but that keeps me from having to do a clearing test before each batch. This builds in adequate fixing time for film when the fixer is close to exhaustion. Note that 2x the clearing time is the minimum time you need to fix; fixing film longer (and RC paper too) has no detrimental effects if it doesn't go longer than 4x the clearing time. I do test for clearing time as the film fixer reaches the end of its life and discard the fixer when the clearing time approaches 2x that in fresh fix. And, yes, do not use film fixer for fixing prints.

"5. At some point, bath #1 is discarded, bath #2 becomes bath #1, and fresh fixer is mixed up to be the new bath #2. Presumably I'd want to have some kind of test for bath #1 to determine when it's ready to be disposed of. Is a film clearing test at the beginning of a print session workable for this test? What's the best way, in your opinion, to determine when bath #1 is done?"

The best way I've found to deal with fixer capacity for bath one for prints is to track throughput. Ideally, you would do a residual silver test using the Kodak ST-1 test or the Kodak Rapid Selenium Test, determine the number of prints that you can safely fix before the test shows insoluble silver thiosulfate compounds in the print, then build in a generous safety factor (e.g., if you get 40 8x10s per liter before the test shows a positive, then settle on 35 or so) and use that number to keep track of throughput. If you do this test with just bath one, then, with two bath fixation, you're going to have no problems with adequate fixation. Then test the last print through your fixer occasionally just to make sure.

Alternatively, just use the manufacturer's recommended throughput. Be aware, however, that throughput capacity numbers for fiber-base prints for many fixers is based on a "general purpose" or "commercial" standard of permanence. If you're trying for optimum permanence, then the fixer capacity is much lower. Also, those capacity numbers usually apply to a one-bath fixing regime. FWIW, my throughput capacity for rapid fixers is 36 8x10s per liter for bath one. After that, bath two gets promoted to bath one and a new bath two is mixed. This cycle should only be repeated 5 times before both baths get mixed fresh. Bath two stays relatively fresh for up to 5 cycles (probably more, but that's a safe limit), so no worries about promoting bath two that number of times as long as it has only fixed prints that have been through bath one.

I tend to divide my workflow into printing and toning sessions. So, I print, develop, stop and give fix one, then wash my prints for 60 minutes. After I collect enough keepers, I'll do a toning session, which consists of a water soak, fix two, toner, water rinse, wash-aid and another 60 minute wash. This is nice with large prints since I only have to have four trays out at any given time (unless I'm doing overall bleaching, etc.). When doing this, however, I give the full fixing time for "commercial" permanence in a one-bath-fixing regime in my first fix. Then I can dry and store the prints for weeks, if needed, before doing a toning session.

Note the confusion about fixing time and capacities. Fixing time is dependent on fixer dilution (within limits, of course). Fixer capacity, on the other hand, is limited by the amount of fixer by-products that build up in the fixer with use. Therefore, capacity is not dependent on dilution, but rather the overall volume of the fixer, regardless of the dilution.

Stronger "film-strength" fixer, e.g., TF-5 at 1+3 or Ilford Rapid Fixer 1+4, will fully fix a print in a minute or thereabouts. The weaker "paper-strength" dilution (1+8 or 1+9 respectively) requires two to three minutes total. If you can keep the time short, you can shorten wash time, since the fixer won't have a chance to soak fully into the paper base (fiber-base paper, of course). The Ilford archival sequence is based on this and the fact that a longer treatment in wash-aid speeds washing. After a couple of minutes in the fix, however, the paper base is saturated with fixer and wash times have to be longer (hence my minimum 60-minute wash). The take-away here is that you'll likely have to wash rather longer with a two-bath fixing regime unless you can keep the fixing time short. I can't even drain a 16x20 print in less than 20 seconds or thereabouts, much less deal accurately with a 30-second fix in each bath, so I've just gone to using the weaker "paper strength" dilution and fixing and washing appropriately longer.

The KRST test for residual silver is easy and, if you selenium tone, the reagent is always at hand. I suggest you use it. The HT-2 test for adequate washing is its partner. Use that too.

Best,

Doremus
 

snusmumriken

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I keep a separate bottle of working strength fixer for film. I mark the number of films processed on the label until I reach the capacity indicated by Ilford. As I approach that capacity I do run checks on clearing time as you describe, but haven’t found it necessary to increase fix time, at least for the films I use (FP4+, HP5+, Delta 100, Double X). I find it necessary to filter the fixer through a Paterson filter funnel before and after use. I don’t know where the little black particles come from, but there they are and I don’t want them on my film.

I do half-day sessions of printing in which I aim for final 12x16 prints of perhaps 3 negatives. I use Ilford Rapid Fix and MG Classic FB. Fixer bath 2 kept from the previous session becomes fixer bath 1, and I mix up a fresh bath 2 (1+4). 1 minute in each bath, everything processed straight through. I find the time spent rocking dishes valuable to consider what changes to make, and I also give the almost-final print 5 min of running water before I decide how to do my final print. My ‘holding’ stage is a running water wash in a print washer while I clean up dishes prior to toning.
 

cliveh

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When it is fixed it is fixed and you don't need two bath fixation to do this.
 

snusmumriken

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When it is fixed it is fixed and you don't need two bath fixation to do this.

Isn’t “When” the crucial word here? I will let others detail the chemistry, but my vague understanding is that contaminants in the fixer block its intended action. The point of two fixer baths is to minimise this problem.
 
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BHuij

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Yeah I’m not interested in reopening the one vs two bath argument. I understand the pros and cons of both approaches and have made my decision.

Last night I did my first printing session with the two bath method and got great results, and it was relatively painless
 

xkaes

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Isn’t “When” the crucial word here? I will let others detail the chemistry, but my vague understanding is that contaminants in the fixer block its intended action. The point of two fixer baths is to minimise this problem.

And it's easy to determine what the "when" is. The most popular is the selenium test. Just take unexposed film or paper (you need a separate test for each item being tested) and fix it (you need a separate test for each fixer being tested) until all the silver is gone -- at whatever time and dilution you want.

Since I'm a tube user, all my prints get fresh fixer (tubes need very little) and it's used only once. For example 2 oz. for an 8x10 print.
 

faberryman

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From the Ilford Rapid Fixer datasheet:

An extremely efficient method of fixing film or paper is to use the two bath fixing technique. Make up two separate fixing baths of the same solution volume. Fix the film or paper in the first bath for half the recommended fixing time and then transfer them to the second bath for the remainder of the time. Continue to work this way until the capacity of the first bath is reached, then discarded it and replace it with the second fixer bath. Prepare and use a completely fresh second bath. Repeat this process as required with the result that the film or paper is always thoroughly fixed by the relatively fresh fixer in the second bath.

I don't run enough prints through the fixer baths during a session to have to prepare a new second fixer bath. I discard all of my chemicals at the end of each session.
 
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When it is fixed it is fixed and you don't need two bath fixation to do this.
Indeed! A one-bath fixing regime for fiber-base paper works just fine. The late PE did just that and found it most convenient for him. Others too.

Just be aware. If you want fixation for optimum permanence and use a one-bath regime, your capacity ends up being around 10 8x10s per liter (this per Ilford's tech sheet on Rapid Fixer - other rapid fixers will be the same).

The problem is that a relatively small amount of the byproducts of fixation dissolved in the fixer render the fixer less efficient. When dissolved silver reaches about 2g/liter, Ilford says it's no longer good even for a "commercial" level of permanence. This works out to around 40 8x10s per liter. However, "for prints that need maximum stability for
long term storage, the maximum silver level in the fixer should not rise above 0.5 g/liter," which works out to 10 8x10s per liter (from Ilford's tech sheet on rapid fixer). If you include test strips and trail prints in this, it's easy to see that you'll be tossing your fixer quite often if you're making lots of prints. The real danger is that it's easy to overuse the fix and end up with underfixed prints.

A two-bath fixing regime allows you to fix 40 8x10s through bath one and then finish fixing them in bath two, which works out to 20 8x10s per liter, effectively doubling the capacity for the same high level of fixation and, most important for me, allowing one to quadruple the number of prints through the fixers before having to discard a bath and mix another. And then there's the nice reassurance that you're not overworking your fixer and underfixing your prints.

Choose whichever method works best for you.

Doremus
 
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BHuij

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Honestly the idea of one-shot fixer kind of appeals to me too. I have a Beseler rotary base and tubes for 8x10 and 11x14; I use the 8x10 tubes for developing 4x5 film. I definitely want to keep the developer step in a tray since that's the fun part to watch. But maybe I could go from the water stop into a fixer that only needs to be effective enough to stop the paper from being light sensitive, then into a water holding bath, and towards the end of the print session, I can tube-process all my keepers with one-shot fresh fixer prior to toning/HCA/final wash.

Next time I feel like I need to overhaul my darkroom procedure despite it working just fine, maybe I'll give that a shot
 

cliveh

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Indeed! A one-bath fixing regime for fiber-base paper works just fine. The late PE did just that and found it most convenient for him. Others too.

Doremus

It also works for gloss and any other surface finish.
 

Roger Cole

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My FB prints are 30 years old, alive and kicking, and I never did 2 baths fixing. I started with 2 bath fixing films when T-grain came around and films stayed magenta if not.

The reason for using a two bath method is to get more life from the fixer. One bath works just as well for either RC or FB but the number of prints per amount of fixer will be substantially reduced.

I've never used two baths for film and never have pink T-grain film. If it's still pink your fixing times are just too short.
 
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