What is "Visualization"?

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ChristopherCoy

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There's a lot of good, common sense replies. It's probably just my interpretation, but when I read books or otherwise ingest information, "visualization" is often spoken of as if its some form of ritualistic exercise carried out by only the highly educated deities in art. No on ever says that its simply "your imagination."
 
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I see a projected image on a screen.
As you use a TV screen to present yours, you need to visualize the results presented in that manner.
Some subjects are difficult to present well in the forms available to us - shapes that don't fit well on a screen, lighting conditions that cause problems, objects in the scene that obscure and distract - there are a myriad of factors that cause us to think something like" "yes that will look good as a "straight" photograph", "no I can't see any way to make a good photograph of that", or "yes I can make a good photograph of that if I use techniques A), B) and C) while in the darkroom/post processing".
No matter what you do, you are translating the original scene into a final photographic product. Or you decide not to do so. In each case though, you are visualizing the results, when you decide to trip the shutter.
Some don't visualize at the time of exposure. They just "capture" at that time. They don't bring visualization into the process until they are evaluating the "captures".
I prefer not to work that way.
But you frame a picture for the best composition at the time you shoot it. You don't need to previsualize anything. It's right there before you in the viewfinder. I seem to get the feeling that this is being hyped as to something mystical. Sort of like the black arts of a secret society.

For example, you aim the camera and there's a telephone pole sticking out of your subject's head. Well, I don't have to previsualize anything. It's right there and wrong. So I move over so the pole shifts. What am I previsualizing? Then I wait for the sun to start setting so the picture and the subject warms up, again in my viewfinder. What am I previsualizing there? IF you don't see and get it at the time of the shot, you don't;t get it. Well, unless you do a lot of photoshopping like cloning skies or darkroom magic which is a separate discussion.
 
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ChristopherCoy

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I seem to get the feeling that this is being hyped as to something mystical. Sort of like the black arts of a secret society.
.

I think you're feeling kinda the way I was feeling when I asked the question.

With regards to your telephone pole, the mere thought that you thought the telephone pole sticking out of the subjects head is wrong, is visualization (if I'm understanding everyone correctly). You knew that the telephone pole would look wrong in the final print, and so you moved. You "pre-visualized" the finished product and made a decision before capturing the image on film (or sensor.)
 

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There's a lot of good, common sense replies. It's probably just my interpretation, but when I read books or otherwise ingest information, "visualization" is often spoken of as if its some form of ritualistic exercise carried out by only the highly educated deities in art. No on ever says that its simply "your imagination."

Mostly because "your imagination" is simply not enough. As others have stated, imagination is useless if you don't understand the tools you are working with and the process you are engaged in.

And no need in invoke "deities". With practice, experience, and a desire to acquire knowledge, everybody eventually becomes highly educated.
 
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I think you're feeling kinda the way I was feeling when I asked the question.

With regards to your telephone pole, the mere thought that you thought the telephone pole sticking out of the subjects head is wrong, is visualization (if I'm understanding everyone correctly). You knew that the telephone pole would look wrong in the final print, and so you moved. You "pre-visualized" the finished product and made a decision before capturing the image on film (or sensor.)
Yeah. Whooo! When I use to smoke pot, I would previsualize all sorts of stuff. :smile:

As far as poles, I don't need to think about what it looks like on a print. I could see it right there in the viewfinder. Do you need to previsualize to use rules of thirds or balance pictures on the ground glass? It's not clear to me how thinking about the print is better than looking in front of you through the camera while you're composing? Maybe someone can clear that up for me.
 
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ChristopherCoy

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As far as poles, I don't need to think about what it looks like on a print. I could see it right there in the viewfinder. Do you need to previsualize to use rules of thirds or balance pictures on the ground glass? It's not clear to me how thinking about the print is better than looking in front of you through the camera while you're composing? Maybe someone can clear that up for me.

If I'm understanding everyone correctly, think about shooting white clouds on a blue sky made with black and white film. What you see in your viewfinder is not what is going to be on the print. Before you take the photo on black and white film, you know that in the resulting image you want to separate the clouds from the sky some, so you decide to use a yellow, or red filter. Thinking about the cloud/sky separation, and making the decision to use the filter, is in fact visualization.
 
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Michael and Christopher: Thanks for some clarifications. But why do you need to visualize those things on a piece of print paper? How does that work? I rarely print. I make slide shows or just display my shots on the web. How should I previsualize? Do you see where I'm going with this? I'm trying to force people to describe exactly what previsualization is rather than just throwing it out on the table as some black art telling us that;s what they do. What is it that you do? What does print paper have to do with it?
 

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But you frame a picture for the best composition at the time you shoot it. You don't need to previsualize anything. It's right there before you in the viewfinder. I seem to get the feeling that this is being hyped as to something mystical. Sort of like the black arts of a secret society.

For example, you aim the camera and there's a telephone pole sticking out of your subject's head. Well, I don't have to previsualize anything. It's right there and wrong. So I move over so the pole shifts. What am I previsualizing? Then I wait for the sun to start setting so the picture and the subject warms up, again in my viewfinder. What am I previsualizing there? IF you don't see and get it at the time of the shot, you don't;t get it. Well, unless you do a lot of photoshopping like cloning skies or darkroom magic which is a separate discussion.
I don't pre-visualize, unless I am in a Minor White* frame of mind.:whistling:
I have a couple of friends who greatly frustrate me, because their photographs never leave their phones or, in one case, their cameras. In that latter case, when they filled up the memory on their compact digital camera, they bought another camera!
But anyone who presents their photographs to others in a manner other than on the little screen on the phone or the back of the camera, usually at some step of the process thinks about how the photograph of the scene (not the scene itself) will look - that is what visualization is.
When you look through the viewfinder of your camera and note the telephone pole behind your subject, it doesn't bother you in real life, because you have enough three dimensional information to be able to easily differentiate between foreground and background. If you were using a stereo camera, you might elect to do nothing, because much of that three dimensional information is retained in a stereo pair of photographs. But because you know that a single two dimensional photograph looks funny with a telephone pole coming out of the subjects head - because you can visualize how poor that will make the photograph look - you adjust your position, and eliminate the problem.
When Ansel Adams and Minor White and others started all of the famous discussion about visualization (*Minor White preferred pre-visualization) they were responding to a couple of factors.
One of those factors related to the struggle to have photography accepted as an art form - something much more than snapshots. Just like a painter who visualizes a result before any paint is applied to a canvas, they were showing that photographers do the same.
The other factor related to the more technical aspects of the Zone System - the applied sensitometry, the placement of exposure values and the use of development controls to match the negative to the contrast of the paper. Those techniques were (and for some still are) useful when trying to make what one one visualizes come true (on a print).
Some photographers prefer photographs that are quite natural and life-like and apparently un-manipulated. I expect Alan fits within that group. Others prefer photographs that are very different than "natural". But both types of photographers form a picture in their mind of what the final result will look like at various stages in the process. Adams et al advocated that the process of visualization should happen at or before the time of exposure.
 

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If I'm understanding everyone correctly, think about shooting white clouds on a blue sky made with black and white film. What you see in your viewfinder is not what is going to be on the print. Before you take the photo on black and white film, you know that in the resulting image you want to separate the clouds from the sky some, so you decide to use a yellow, or red filter. Thinking about the cloud/sky separation, and making the decision to use the filter, is in fact visualization.
It is simpler than that.
You visualize how the scene will look in the print without the filter.
You visualize how the scene will look in the print with the filter.
Either choose, or try both.
In Alan's case, just substitute a polarizing filter, or a change in exposure to emphasize cloud detail at the expense of foreground detail.
Visualize how each option will end up appearing on his TV screen.
Then either choose, or try all.
 
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Other than someone who's taking a snapshot of a scene, then we all visualize the picture to some degree. We add a filter to darken the skies or line up the horizon so it's level. Even snapshots are done that way to some degree as you level the camera. So we're all visualizing the pictures we shoot, print or no print, web page or not. . Would you say following the "rules" is also visualizing?
 

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I visualized this as the bad-ass thunderstorm it was. Did I succeed?

Storm001.jpg

Pentax K1000, 50mm f2, HP5+ in Rodinal 1:50. No filter.
 
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I visualized this as the bad-ass thunderstorm it was. Did I succeed?

Pentax K1000, 50mm f2, HP5+ in Rodinal 1:50. No filter.
I think God had something to do with it. :smile: But it is a nice shot.
 
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Basically yes. I mean if you consciously take a picture you have essentially visualized what you think it will look like as a photograph (or how you'd like to look etc.). I don't think you can really help it. I also don't think it is worth overcomplicating.

People make a big deal about it because of the context Ansel Adams used it in - ie standing before a scene, imagining how you'd like it to look in black and white so that the print is expressive of your feelings about the scene to some degree, and letting that mental picture guide how you proceed technically - technique being used as a (hopefully) path of least resistance to the final print.
I used to chant mantras before setting up the scene for a landscape shot. My camera wouldn't cooperate. Now, not so much.
 
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ChristopherCoy

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People make a big deal about it because of the context Ansel Adams used it in - ie standing before a scene, imagining how you'd like it to look in black and white so that the print is expressive of your feelings about the scene to some degree, and letting that mental picture guide how you proceed technically - technique being used as a (hopefully) path of least resistance to the final print.


This, but also.... the way it's discussed, particularly in his books, it's made to seem like visualization has more effect on the outcome than it really does. But if you have any kind of competency outside of the green box on the shutter speed dial, you're already doing it without realizing it.
 

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I'll post this, but note that it illustrates more of what I think Christopher was thinking about when he started this thread than what Alan is thinking about.
The first example is a scan from a negative but still shows something like a straight print:
upload_2021-4-18_11-59-27.png


As you might guess, the cloud formation was a major reason I took this photograph initially. IIRC, I used a yellow filter.
The following is closer to what I visualized at the time of exposure. This too is a negative scan, but the post-processing results in a close resemblance to the toned darkroom print on my wall.
upload_2021-4-18_12-4-1.png


The resizing and downloading processes hamper the comparison. The print on my wall looks better.
 

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Here is a colour (E6) example.
The first version shows how I metered the scene, in that it shows how I essentially threw away the highlight detail in order to preserve the detail in the trees:
upload_2021-4-18_12-14-32.png


The second example is the result of my visualization - I anticipated having to do a large amount of manipulation to modify the tones and bring more detail into the results, at the expense of a "natural" appearance:
upload_2021-4-18_12-16-59.png
 

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I visualized this as the bad-ass thunderstorm it was. Did I succeed?
.

If what you saw at the scene and translated it in to the b&w zones that you required on the negative to get you the print that you had visualised in your mind's eye then, yes, you succeeded. The problem that people have is translating it into b&w in their mind's eye and then,and this is the difficult bit , getting the exposure and development that is required to turn your "mind's eye" picture into the right negative and then turning that into the print that replicates what you saw in b&w in your mind's eye picture

I may have been there with you and looked at the same scene but saw a different b&w print at the end. Both of us are right. Both of us can produce a print that reflects what we visualised exactly or one of us can and the other is left with a nagging doubt that he has got it exactly correct or both of us can't quite replicate what we think/ remembered what we now think we saw.

In b&w there is no exact scene there, is there, given it doesn't exist in real life?

In my visualisation in my thunderstorm I am sure that I can visualise a bad-ass creature on the wing tearing at the engine cowling and I need to go out on the wing with my gun to shoot it, if we are to have any chance of landing this thread safely the other side of the mountains. The Canadian I usually rely on in these matters took the train instead so it is down to me :D

pentaxuser
 

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Adams admitted having difficulty with exposure during the early years, especially with plates! I'm sure he was hampered by slow films and rudimentary light meters as well, but some of his best images were made in the darkroom, from poor negatives, Moonrise over Hernandez in particular.
 

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Wasn't visualization required more with Admas due to the limitation of print papers and the film at the time?

Ansel Adams lived till 1984, so there were probably times during his active life as a photographer when there were more film and paper choices than today.

And having, for example, only one film and one paper available would make visualization easier, not more difficult. If all I had was, say, Tri-X, Rodinal and Ilford Classic Matt paper, I'd pretty much know all the time how my photo would come out, because I would always visualize for that particular combo and for what it can give me. Or not give me.
 

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If I'm understanding everyone correctly, think about shooting white clouds on a blue sky made with black and white film. What you see in your viewfinder is not what is going to be on the print. Before you take the photo on black and white film, you know that in the resulting image you want to separate the clouds from the sky some, so you decide to use a yellow, or red filter. Thinking about the cloud/sky separation, and making the decision to use the filter, is in fact visualization.

To me, that's where your "what you saw and felt" from you original post comes into account. If you saw and felt a certain drama in the scene and you want to make sure the clouds are well separated from the sky (because that's where the drama comes from), then you'll use a yellow or red filter, depending on how much drama you've visualized and want to be able to transfer in the print.

But the beauty of it is that I may be right next to you and have felt something totally different from the scene, something to do with the shadows in which I would therefore want some detail. A red filter - and maybe even a yellow higher than 8 - would be out of the question. My visualization would be completely different than yours, meaning that I would also develop differently and maybe print on a different paper.

Adams always makes it clear that visualization is a process that implies a set of choices for everybody, but that the visualization itself - what you see and what choices you're going to make to make it into a print - is a highly personal matter.
 

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Wasn't visualization required more with Admas due to the limitation of print papers and the film at the time?
The people who need visualization the most are slide shooters who project their work.
 
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