What is this stuff that's showing up on my negatives? And how can I fix it?

[ColColt]

Therein lies the problem. See, I stopped doing film back int eh mid 90's due to doing color work with medium format(weddings, portraits, etc) and got away from B&W film. Having only recently picked it up again I forgot how I did it but found some of my notes about agitation, how long I developed a given film, etc. but;I found nothing about keeping any of the chemicals.

I use 300ml of chemistry each to develop a test roll and dump it all after use. I don't use a liter for fixing one roll of film.

 

[MattKing]

Therein lies the problem. See, I stopped doing film back int eh mid 90's due to doing color work with medium format(weddings, portraits, etc) and got away from B&W film. Having only recently picked it up again I forgot how I did it but found some of my notes about agitation, how long I developed a given film, etc. but;I found nothing about keeping any of the chemicals.

I use 300ml of chemistry each to develop a test roll and dump it all after use. I don't use a liter for fixing one roll of film.

If one litre has the capacity to fix 32 rolls, 300 ml has the capacity to fix 9 rolls.

I prefer the convenience of 1.25 litre bottles, but you certainly could use smaller bottles.

 

[ColColt]

I have 1 and 2 liter bottles and make 2 liters of fixer each time. The instructions with Rapid Fix show for mixing a gallon so, I just cut it in half as I don't need a gallon of Rapid Fix. I bought some brown glass storage bottles from somewhere recently(escapes me where-maybe Freestyle or B&H) and they are a supplement to the ones I had years ago. I was surprised brown glass bottles were even available. Developer gets put in the accordion(air vac) style containers if I'm using something like ID-11.

 

[MattKing]

I have 1 and 2 liter bottles and make 2 liters of fixer each time. The instructions with Rapid Fix show for mixing a gallon so, I just cut it in half as I don't need a gallon of Rapid Fix. I bought some brown glass storage bottles from somewhere recently(escapes me where-maybe Freestyle or B&H) and they are a supplement to the ones I had years ago. I was surprised brown glass bottles were even available. Developer gets put in the accordion(air vac) style containers if I'm using something like ID-11.

You can mix any quantity of Rapid Fix you wish. Just be sure to keep the ratios similar.

If it is Kodak Rapid fix, just replace the hardener with the equivalent amount of water - it works fine, and you don't want the hardener except with some specialized films.

And the accordion containers are the devil's own creations - you cannot clean them effectively, and they are the perfect plastic to allow air through - just the opposite of what you want for developers!

 

[ColColt]

How do they allow the air through? I've used them since 1977 with no apparent problem.

 

[MattKing]

How do they allow the air through? I've used them since 1977 with no apparent problem.

In order to be sufficiently flexible to compress the way they do, they have to be made out of a plastic that is more gas permeable than other plastics.

But most importantly, the creases make full cleaning impossible.

 

[ColColt]

Cleaning can be most difficult, agreed. I always washed them out as soon as the chemical was depleted. I mostly used them for developers although some did get employed using stop bath or fixer. I had many different sizes and other kinds of plastic and glass containers so, it was a toss of the coin which got used at the time. I have a host of brown glass bottles from about 2 oz to a liter. I use to use them to a degree and would use marbles, as the liquid got depleted, to bring the level back close to the top.

 

[Truzi]

Interesting...I was not aware you are not supposed to disturb it. I usually fill the tank half way with distilled water, put in a couple drops of photo flo, fill the rest up with distilled water, then use the rod to agitate it for about 30 seconds then dump it. Are you really not supposed to disturb it? I have noticed more foam with larger amounts of photo flo and more agitation so I usually try and put the least amount possible in.

I'm no expert - so I cannot say with certainty that you should not disturb it. I think my main mistakes were agitation (as if it were fixer) and pouring the solution in and out of the tank. My original problems may have come from improper mixing, too vigorous agitation, water quality, etc., so I have come up with something that works for me. What is important is finding a method that works for you; just be aware it may take some experimentation and practice.

I mix the Photo Flo with distilled water in a container that can accommodate my reels, and let it sit until the foam goes away (I sometimes mix by shaking it in a large bottle, then carefully decant into the container, and wait for any foam to subside). I don't agitate the container when dipping. I dip the reels in and gently rotate them around, and if foam forms when I dip, I try to wait for it to disappear before removing the reel. This has been less of an issue the more practice I get.

 

[ColColt]

Too much Photoflo and too much agitation will only give a soapy looking mess when you take the tank top off. Little to no agitation is recommended. Something on the order of maybe two inversions, one at the beginning and one around 15 seconds for the 30 seconds then dump. I believe that's Kodak's recommendation now. Years ago I agitated a full 30 seconds and way too many suds.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Too much Photoflo and too much agitation will only give a soapy looking mess when you take the tank top off. Little to no agitation is recommended. Something on the order of maybe two inversions, one at the beginning and one around 15 seconds for the 30 seconds then dump. I believe that's Kodak's recommendation now. Years ago I agitated a full 30 seconds and way too many suds.

Yes 30 seconds of agitation will fill the area with foam. I let the film sit in the PhotoFlo solution for about 30 seconds, slowly move the film around and then sit for another 30 seconds. I do not have problems with streaking or dirt on the film and I do not use my fingers nor a squeegee.

 

[Richard S. (rich815)]

My suggestions: Use water for stop, switch from photoflo to LPN for a last step wetting agent, lastly hang your neg strips at an angle that way the water can slide down to the bottom of the neg edge then slides along the edge from there to the bottom of the roll instead of down the middle off all frames to get to the bottom. I believe I read somewhere that Michael Smith and Paula Chamlee do that.

 

[MattKing]

From the Kodak datasheet for T-Max and T-Max RS developers (because I had it at hand):

"Wetting Agent
30 seconds
Provide gentle agitation for 5 seconds of the total time. To reduce
drying scum, mix KODAK PHOTO-FLO Solution with distilled water in
areas that have hard water."

 

[ColColt]

There you go, from the horses mouth.

 

[Sirius Glass]

From the Kodak datasheet for T-Max and T-Max RS developers (because I had it at hand):

"Wetting Agent
30 seconds
Provide gentle agitation for 5 seconds of the total time. To reduce
drying scum, mix KODAK PHOTO-FLO Solution with distilled water in
areas that have hard water."

I use 60 seconds to make sure that all the surface in coated and because the extra 30 seconds will not cause any damage. It is not like leaving in hypo too long.

 

[rpavich]

I know that this is an old thread but I've been doing something that I've never heard folks do here on apug. I learned it from a guy online, gave it a shot and it's worked flawlessly for getting 99% of water off of my negs before drying.

I don't use photoflo.

I use only filtered or demineralized water, and I use a salad spinner. (the machine that's designed to remove water from your lettuce after washing it.)

Some folks shake off their rolls and this is the same principle but it's more effective.


I rigged it with rubber bands inside so that the reels don't move around and I put a reel on the opposite side of the salad spinner to counter balance it so it won't wobble.

I give it 25 pulls on the cord that spins it and the centripetal force really removes the water!

Then I put it into my negative dryer (a Kleen Dry unit from Honeywell) and in 45 minutes...perfectly dried negs with no spots or dust.

 

[AgX]

One may question whether a final rinse with a dedicated bath is obsolete by your method.

Not due to the surfactant issue (as long as with your Spinning method you get rid of all droplets on the emulsion), but for the bacteriostatic character of the final rinse.
(This too may be questioned for some products.)

 

[rpavich]

One may question whether a final rinse with a dedicated bath is obsolete by your method.

Not due to the surfactant issue (as long as with your Spinning method you get rid of all droplets on the emulsion), but for the bacteriostatic character of the final rinse.
(This too may be questioned for some products.)

I'm not sure what you mean.
I do rinse my negatives of course, just not with Photo Flo.
Are you saying that not using PhotoFlo will cause some problem in the future?

 

[AgX]

Maybe.
This issue has been discussed here, but to no real avail.

For films still containing silver, it has been stated that the silver as such acts bacteriocide. But the silver content varies over the image.
Concerning the final rinse baths, with the exception of baths for colour films, the manufacturers so far have not made clear whether the bacteriocide/fungizide content is just sufficient to preserve the concentrate or to protect the film as well.

 

[gijsbert]

I know that this is an old thread but I've been doing something that I've never heard folks do here on apug. I learned it from a guy online, gave it a shot and it's worked flawlessly for getting 99% of water off of my negs before drying.

I don't use photoflo.

I use only filtered or demineralized water, and I use a salad spinner. (the machine that's designed to remove water from your lettuce after washing it.)

Some folks shake off their rolls and this is the same principle but it's more effective.


I rigged it with rubber bands inside so that the reels don't move around and I put a reel on the opposite side of the salad spinner to counter balance it so it won't wobble.

I give it 25 pulls on the cord that spins it and the centripetal force really removes the water!

Then I put it into my negative dryer (a Kleen Dry unit from Honeywell) and in 45 minutes...perfectly dried negs with no spots or dust.

Hi,
I am considering getting one of these dryers but I am wondering if it gives a lot of extra curl?
Thanks

 

[rpavich]

Hi,
I am considering getting one of these dryers but I am wondering if it gives a lot of extra curl?
Thanks

Well, it's pretty curly, but I just put the negatives in a sleeve page and put them between a couple of heavy books for a day. I'd much rather have curly negs than water spots.

 

[Bill Burk]

The way you described what you do sounds right.

Now I use Photo-Flow in a 5x7 tray. I put about 12 ounces of filtered water in the tray. Then I put in a small amount of Photo-Flo.

I don't think the amount is critical. I used to just give a sploosh and never had trouble. But we had a pet rat who needed some antibiotics, and I kept the small syringe the vet gave us. Now I give about 0.2 cc of Photo-Flo. Yes I agitate the tray gently until it no longer shows ripples in the light. I try not to agitate so much that it foams.

Then I take the film off the reels and run it through the tray, as if I were developing by tray the old-fashioned way. I hang it up immediately and do not touch it until a day or two later.

Haa Old thread... Well that's what I do anyway.

 

[Bill Burk]

I had a couple of these driers. Picked up at garage sales over the years. I won't say anything to discourage you from using it the way that works for you... I just found them awkward to use. I tossed out the driers after realizing I never use them, kept the tins of silica gel because I thought they would be useful some day... but I've since misplaced even those tins.

 

[gijsbert]

Well, it's pretty curly, but I just put the negatives in a sleeve page and put them between a couple of heavy books for a day. I'd much rather have curly negs than water spots.

One can hope . I stopped developing my negatives due to dust issues and the odd water spot, but one of these dryers sounds like it's worth the try.
Thanks for the info!