What is the value of Art school?

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did you get an art degree?

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TheFlyingCamera

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We've gotten this far without anybody mentioning Jacques "Jimbo" Derrida. I have no idea what he went on about.

View attachment 242609
If you REALLY want to go there... I studied with the man responsible for bringing Derrida to the US. 99% of what he said was pure unadulterated bullshit, but the general idea of deconstructionism/post-structuralism is that language is symbolic, and is not what it represents - it is only an approximation thereof. I can use ever more precise language to get closer to the thing I am describing, but unless I hand you the exact rock I am talking about, you will only ever interpret the idea of the rock I am talking about, and not get it right. Therefore, to abstract it out further, absolute "truth" is unknowable because we are exchanging abstractions of ideas to communicate.
 
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I only have a Bachelors in Computer Science, so while I should be using a digital camera. I use a film camera because of less computer usage required. I already use computers enough at work.
 

Sirius Glass

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I only have a Bachelors in Computer Science, so while I should be using a digital camera. I use a film camera because of less computer usage required. I already use computers enough at work.

Among other things I taught Electrical Engineering and Computer Science for ten years and designed electro-optical systems but I still prefer film for many reasons including the one you stated.
 
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Among other things I taught Electrical Engineering and Computer Science for ten years and designed electro-optical systems but I still prefer film for many reasons including the one you stated.
I could go a produce a list of why film is nicer in my opinion, but I think it qualifies as preaching to the choir. I'm not entirely sure that the one art class I took in college was useful for a purpose, but it did allow me to understand more of what art is.

Which is why when I take photos using my film camera I do it for the aesthetic qualities it produces. The graininess of a long gone, but still here era. My favorite subject to photograph is nature and landscapes. To capture an imperfect copy of the world and store it away permanently in a write once read many media. It's permanent. Take a photo on film and its there forever. Screwed up? Oh well. With digital the fact that its simply a collection of ones and zeroes to represent the world make the photos become ephemeral. They can be erased whenever, even unintentionally. Film is permanent. The ruggedness of the camera allows me to travel without worry of damage to sensitive electronic components, and the fact that it does not require charging at all means I am untethered from the electrical grid, and instead only require a small coin cell type battery to power my light meter.

Many people arrive to art with the belief that its created by self obsessed left wing nuts, but this is merely the TV version of the artist. Much like with software engineering, they picture the individual rapidly typing at a terminal and hacking NASA and the FBI after muttering techno-babble, but the reality is that I spend my time crafting instructions for the computer to follow.

Art doesn't have a particular goal or purpose, because that is only visible to the beholder, and cannot be expressed in proper detail to anyone. Why do I like landscape and nature pictures? I just do. There is an inherent awe inspiring quality in in nature, landscapes, but also in our cities. Which is why they are known as the urban jungles.

There is some value in art school, but I just haven't found it. It doesn't seem to be required for anyone to become legendary in their chosen field. It is simply a nice to have. Even in my own field, having this degree doesn't make me amazing or special, or give me any real edge. It's mostly so that employers know I've been exposed to the subject, can express some level of competence, and to meet regulatory requirements. But all too often, you will find the legendary software engineers, and the best hackers, never stepped foot in the halls of learning. They just get to work. Powered not by some thirst for money, or to please others, but by some internal motivation.
 
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I always love reading peoples definition of art and making statements that "this is art" and "this is not art". The big thing that so many people don't seem to get is that their definition of what art is, is just that, their definition. I don't use the word "art", I don't use the word "artist", the words are meaningless in that they define different things for different people. You are free to designate a photo as "art" or not but it doesn't matter, just don't think that your definition has any meaning outside your world.
 

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I always love reading peoples definition of art and making statements that "this is art" and "this is not art". The big thing that so many people don't seem to get is that their definition of what art is, is just that, their definition. I don't use the word "art", I don't use the word "artist", the words are meaningless in that they define different things for different people. You are free to designate a photo as "art" or not but it doesn't matter, just don't think that your definition has any meaning outside your world.
I know!
Eugene Atget had the opposite problem. Bernice Abbott and her Surrealist counterparts exclaimed "ART!" but he said, nope, straight documentation I did not make these photographs with artistic intent.
 

cowanw

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If you REALLY want to go there... I studied with the man responsible for bringing Derrida to the US. 99% of what he said was pure unadulterated bullshit, but the general idea of deconstructionism/post-structuralism is that language is symbolic, and is not what it represents - it is only an approximation thereof. I can use ever more precise language to get closer to the thing I am describing, but unless I hand you the exact rock I am talking about, you will only ever interpret the idea of the rock I am talking about, and not get it right. Therefore, to abstract it out further, absolute "truth" is unknowable because we are exchanging abstractions of ideas to communicate.
Was there a presumption of a corollary to that; being that untruth was unknowable also?
 

faberryman

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So you agree it's both unnecessary and a derail of the thread topic.
Right, no need to serve up your rationalizations for shooting film. You've convinced yourself and that is all that is important.
 

jtk

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If you REALLY want to go there... I studied with the man responsible for bringing Derrida to the US. 99% of what he said was pure unadulterated bullshit, but the general idea of deconstructionism/post-structuralism is that language is symbolic, and is not what it represents - it is only an approximation thereof. I can use ever more precise language to get closer to the thing I am describing, but unless I hand you the exact rock I am talking about, you will only ever interpret the idea of the rock I am talking about, and not get it right. Therefore, to abstract it out further, absolute "truth" is unknowable because we are exchanging abstractions of ideas to communicate.

The remaining 1% is sweet
 
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So you agree it's both unnecessary and a derail of the thread topic.
Not really, because I did discuss art school in the first sentence and then the last paragraph(the second largest one) since that is the point of the thread and also the closing paragraph of my post. The point here is that the thread is about art school, which I discussed and you ignored.

Right, no need to serve up your rationalizations for shooting film. You've convinced yourself and that is all that is important.
Calling it a rationalization is a stretch and an incorrect assumption as to my reasons for using it. I would say at least some of my points are cold hard undeniable fact, but if you really want to discuss the finer points of film I think the film threads are probably better suited for it since this is after all the art school thread. If you do make one make sure to quote me in it, I never tire of talking about film. :smile:
 
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BradS

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Hmmm, let's see...where (else) can we go with this thread ???

A few weeks ago, just a few days after I started this thread, I went and visited the campus of the local community college where I was contemplating taking a degreee in Art...or Forestry...or, welding...I parked in a lot adjacent to the dorms...and what did I see there? A beautiful, dark green, all original 1968 Pontiac Firebird 400, with hood tach !!!
 
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BradS

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...anyway, the whole question is kinda moot now. The school is closed - probably for the rest of this school year. I've picked up a couple of Art History textbooks and one of the required texts for the freshman (English) composition class...fun stuff. Maybe, next year.
 

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Not really, because I did discuss art school in the first sentence and then the last paragraph(the second largest one) since that is the point of the thread and also the closing paragraph of my post. The point here is that the thread is about art school, which I discussed and you ignored.

your discussion about art school said " if there is any value in it I haven't found it ... who said to be legendary in your field you need a degree in it"
not really sure that is a discussion. but OK...
I don't use as much film as I used to, these days I am coating things onto paper and glass that I make myself. didn't learn that in engineering school. AND if I screwed up, I am only liable for the image. there is a difference between art and engineering...but its not that big a chasm

regarding the value of art school, one could say the same thing about a college education, or a degree in engineering or law, the person who gets the degree in whatever field it is, is the person putting value in it, the degree isn't much, other than requirements and hoops someone has to deal with. I have a friend who is a top flight cooking school ( j+W) chef. top of his class, and for years he drove an ice cream truck.
 

warden

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...anyway, the whole question is kinda moot now. The school is closed - probably for the rest of this school year. I've picked up a couple of Art History textbooks and one of the required texts for the freshman (English) composition class...fun stuff. Maybe, next year.

Yep, your next shot is in the fall. Social distance learning for hands-on art instruction is difficult to accomplish for sure.
 

Sirius Glass

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One thing about a degree is that once earned, one can never lose or have it taken away. An education is about what one does with it.
 

VinceInMT

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...anyway, the whole question is kinda moot now. The school is closed - probably for the rest of this school year
I'm a non-traditional student (retired, 67 years old) and am working on a BFA at the local university. I have 3 classes in progress right now and we are, of course, banned from campus and having to do our classes online. The modern art history class made the move seamlessly but my advanced drawing and research class is really struggling since the school's system doesn't really lend itself to group critiques, the heart of any studio class. I feel like I am making art no one will see.
The real bump in the road is my 3rd class which is a studio class that was studying Australian Aboriginal art and was supposed to culminate in 2 weeks in Sydney for the Bienalle this May. That was canceled this week. I'll have to get a credit type of refund on my plane fare but we voted that the class will continue. The professor is working on non-travel alternative that will involve more art making.
 

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...anyway, the whole question is kinda moot now. The school is closed - probably for the rest of this school year. I've picked up a couple of Art History textbooks and one of the required texts for the freshman (English) composition class...fun stuff. Maybe, next year.

fun indeed !
a few summers ago i took my first class in 25+ years at my local community college, it was an english class with a writing "workshop" it was great. then I took advanced (college) algergra, and physics, and classes on Xrays and then unfortunately my summer human anatomy class was 13 weeks compressed into 5 weeks.
Have fun with your summer reading :smile:

I'm a non-traditional student (retired, 67 years old) and am working on a BFA at the local university. I have 3 classes in progress right now and we are, of course, banned from campus and having to do our classes online

I'm sort of doing the same thing ... and distance learning too... sadly, i have a feeling this distance thing will be the new normal for a while ...
john
 

jtk

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Hmmm, let's see...where (else) can we go with this thread ???

A few weeks ago, just a few days after I started this thread, I went and visited the campus of the local community college where I was contemplating taking a degreee in Art...or Forestry...or, welding...I parked in a lot adjacent to the dorms...and what did I see there? A beautiful, dark green, all original 1968 Pontiac Firebird 400, with hood tach !!!

Had a great art teacher in middle school...he drove a full throated 57 Ford and taught us how to render engines!
 

jtk

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fwiw, I think short term intensives may be more valuable than degrees. My "arts" are mainly photographic but my recent renewed focus on music (gypsy guitar) has enriched the rest of my life and I may take a course in script-writing due to an idea that's surfaced due to the world's new confrontation with the Black Death. That course would have to be online, of course.
 
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