What is the most rugged F and why?

Peaceful

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Cycling with wife #2

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Cycling with wife #2

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Time's up!

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Time's up!

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Green room

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Green room

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On The Mound

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On The Mound

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138S

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Yes a pro knows Matrix metering is for amateurs. It is just for avg lit shots.

The documentary showing Steve McCurry shooting the last roll of Kodachrome in his F6 is enlightening. He, of course, does not trust the matrix metering in the camera even for his controlled lit portraits.

Steve McCurry used a Nikon FM2 with the 105mm f/2.5 AIS lens, to shot the Afgan Girl, he had all day long to shot that...

If I have time then I use somethong superior, I spot meter in the key and in the fill, then I modify illumination to get the balance I want.


But when I assisted a prominent wedding photographer (20 years ago) we were shotting at least 95% of the shots in Matrix with the F5. One thing is having all day long to take a portrait, and another thing is having to shot some 50 rolls in three hours and wanting 90% of the shots perfectly exposed, including those with flash that sometimes were the 70% of the shots. When you use the flash in commercial photography for events then you use totally automated exposures, if not you are dead. Totally dead, customer won't pay you.




Yes a pro knows Matrix metering is for amateurs. It is just for avg lit shots.

this is totally false, how can you own a F6 and not understanding what it does ?

The F6 interprets the scene. Set matrix mode and take more or less sky... you will see that the F6 is not averaging, you take more sky and the camera does not change the exposure. Its Neural Network takes a decision from the training got from 30,000 images.

If you have bright snow in the background the F6 detects its is a winter shot and exposes for the skin it detected from the RGB spots. Averaging ? No... it detects a pattern and it takes a decision based in Artificial Intelligence. Many times that decision is smarter that the manual one.

I've not used much the F6, only I tested it, but about the F5 I can tell you that it fails not a single frame. In a wedding the Matrix mode and AF allows the photographer to use all his energy in the expression. News, Sports and Events Pros have been using Matrix intensively, it is the most used mode by Pros.

Another thing is in the studio... there you have alternatives... Today they use i-TTL and ratio mode for flash.
 

Huss

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Steve McCurry used a Nikon FM2 with the 105mm f/2.5 AIS lens, to shot the Afgan Girl, he had all day long to shot that.....

this is totally false, how can you own a F6 and not understanding what it does ?.

Not sure why you mentioned the FM2 when I was talking about the F6 and the last roll of Kodachrome. You can watch that documentary.

Totally false? Weird unlike you I don't read the press release and then hypothesize what the camera does. I actually use the F6.
Matrix metering in the F6 is fooled by all sorts of light conditions that would fool any run of the mill avg meter pattern. Subject back lit. Dark backgrounds. Light backgrounds. etc.
I know because I use it.

Again, Steve McCurry did not trust the matrix meter in the F6 for the final roll of Kodachrome. In set up planned portraits. Think about that. When it came down to it, all the chips on the table, he did not use it.

You should watch the documentary.

Anyway, I'm out of this little discussion as I don't have some weird obsession about the gear I use. It's just a good camera. That's all.

But it's not even the favourite I use out of this bunch. What I do like about it is that it is the only one here that works properly with Sigma Art lenses. So does my F75 for that matter, but that lacks in other departments.

 

flavio81

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Yes a pro knows Matrix metering is for amateurs. It is just for avg lit shots.

The documentary showing Steve McCurry shooting the last roll of Kodachrome in his F6 is enlightening. He, of course, does not trust the matrix metering in the camera even for his controlled lit portraits.

I use the F6. I know how the metering behaves. I guess I'm just not a fanboi and call it like it is.

The most important thing to use a meter properly is to be able to understand it. Matrix metering is a black box and it might be unpredctable.

I know how the CW meter on my F-1N or the partial meter on my F-1 will react on different lighting conditions, and I compensate accordingly.

Even better is to use a handheld meter. In fact, perhaps i should have bought handheld meters much earlier in life...
 

E. von Hoegh

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The most important thing to use a meter properly is to be able to understand it. Matrix metering is a black box and it might be unpredctable.

I know how the CW meter on my F-1N or the partial meter on my F-1 will react on different lighting conditions, and I compensate accordingly.

Even better is to use a handheld meter. In fact, perhaps i should have bought handheld meters much earlier in life...
What he above said.
I use the meters (in those which have meters) for convenience.
My arbiter is a LunaSix, which I've known for fourty plus years.
As I mentioned in a different thread, when I get a bad exposure it's invariably the wetware.
 

flavio81

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My arbiter is a LunaSix, which I've known for fourty plus years.

I have two Gossen Luna Pro meters, plus a Gossen Luna Pro SBC meter, and a Minolta Auto Meter IV (digital).

Surprisingly they all agree... Despite being so different. Can't say the same about my cameras!! At least the three F-1 cameras I have agree with each other. And two of the three Pentax MX i had did agree too.

I have recalibrated my Nikon F2A so it agrees with the other cameras.
 

138S

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You can watch that documentary.

If you want you may suggest I watch it once more, because I've watched it at least 3 times yet!!!

A great work! congratulations!


Totally false? Weird unlike you I don't read the press release and then hypothesize what the camera does. I actually use the F6.

It is false that the F5 simply averages segments. Exposure Decision is taken by an intelligent process based in a Neural Network that was trained with 30.000 images exposed by prominent photographers. I'm quite familiar with Neural Network algorithms as I personally coded them in software. There is an algorithm named Backpropagation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backpropagation) that is used to adjust coefficients in the network to make those 30.000 well selected samples deliver just the exposure the "prominent photographer" used, so a new situation presented to the system is judged acording to the "conceptual learning" the network acquired from the training. This is not averaging.

Nikon published material with the additional clues for the "feature extraction" performed in the image to feed the Neural Network:

upload_2020-12-23_23-48-52.png


Matrix metering in the F6 is fooled by all sorts of light conditions that would fool any run of the mill avg meter pattern. Subject back lit. Dark backgrounds. Light backgrounds. etc.

My experience is with the F5, if the F6 meter is as good then I totally subscribe Ken Rockwell statement:

upload_2020-12-23_23-52-8.png

https://kenrockwell.com/nikon/f6.htm

Of course the F6 cannot fix bad or too contrasty lightning.

I'm of the same opinion than Ken, IMO a F5 (or F6) is never fooled, still when scene DR is larger than what film will tolerate then we have to sacrifice something, and what the camera decided to sacrifice may not be the same we want to sacrifice. Personally I know how the F5 exposes so I know when it is to do something different than what I want, in that case I shift to manual.

I trained myself in this way: when I've time I always shot manual if having the time, after evaluating the scene in spot mode, I always check how the Matrix mode would expose. Many times after I see what Matrix would do I explore again the scene in spot mode to see the result from the Matrix decision, many times I find Matrix made a better decision after reconsidering my manual exposure. In that way I learned how the camera works and I know when I have to override the Auto mode.


Again, Steve McCurry did not trust the matrix meter in the F6 for the final roll of Kodachrome. In set up planned portraits. Think about that. When it came down to it, all the chips on the table, he did not use it.

I would also not trust an Auto metering with slides, if contrast is to surpass the film capability. If this is the case, and having time, one should spot meter to see what will be sacrificed. If it is CN film you simply pull 1/2 or 1 stop. On a doubt, for important things (combinend with a challenging scene and hurries), you set automatic bracketing which is what guarantees you have the perfect shot.



(F6) It's just a good camera. That's all.

Not only that, the F6 is also the most refined 35mm slr camera ever made. Of course one may not need at all those refinements... his most famous shot, the Afgan Girl, was made with a FM2. Take a today's D6 and try to repeat that...



The most important thing to use a meter properly is to be able to understand it. Matrix metering is a black box and it might be unpredictable.

If one is used to the camera the Matrix behaviour is mostly predictable, or at least you know when there are chances that the Matrix is not to do what you want. You know when you have to shift to manual or (for example) to spot to retain the exposure of the spot you want at +/-0.

So IMO it is not about never using Matrix or about using it always. We have a selector that is at hand to select the most suitable mode for the situation. Of course we may use Matrix never... of even we may not use a meter at all. Sunny 16 is perfect in many situations.

...but a pro firing all day long probably uses Matrix a lot, all he can.
 
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E. von Hoegh

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I have two Gossen Luna Pro meters, plus a Gossen Luna Pro SBC meter, and a Minolta Auto Meter IV (digital).

Surprisingly they all agree... Despite being so different. Can't say the same about my cameras!! At least the three F-1 cameras I have agree with each other. And two of the three Pentax MX i had did agree too.

I have recalibrated my Nikon F2A so it agrees with the other cameras.
I have the aforesaid LunaSix, recently recalibrated, two LunaPros, two Weston master IIIs (one as new in box) with the Invercone, a Gossen N100, and a Weston from the '30s which was my first real meter.
That (now ancient and non functional) Weston, along wth a Kodak 35 rf and Kodachrome gav
Not sure why you mentioned the FM2 when I was talking about the F6 and the last roll of Kodachrome. You can watch that documentary.

Totally false? Weird unlike you I don't read the press release and then hypothesize what the camera does. I actually use the F6.
Matrix metering in the F6 is fooled by all sorts of light conditions that would fool any run of the mill avg meter pattern. Subject back lit. Dark backgrounds. Light backgrounds. etc.
I know because I use it.

Again, Steve McCurry did not trust the matrix meter in the F6 for the final roll of Kodachrome. In set up planned portraits. Think about that. When it came down to it, all the chips on the table, he did not use it.

You should watch the documentary.

Anyway, I'm out of this little discussion as I don't have some weird obsession about the gear I use. It's just a good camera. That's all.

But it's not even the favourite I use out of this bunch. What I do like about it is that it is the only one here that works properly with Sigma Art lenses. So does my F75 for that matter, but that lacks in other departments.

@
Small penis syndrome for certain.
'Splains a lot.
 

E. von Hoegh

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I'd have to second the F2 for all the points mentioned already.

Although I have to think the toughest Nikon F was the one that stopped a sniper's bullet from killing Don McCullin.
Why not cite all the books which stopped (almost spent, else they'd not have stopped) bullets and shrapnel?
Cameras are not body armor. Nor are they "tanks" "bricks" "hockey pucks (f yourself marty)" or bolas.
They're tools, period. Tools are worthy of respect, this is called "craftmanship".
Any one know about that?
 

Sirius Glass

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I have two Gossen Luna Pro meters, plus a Gossen Luna Pro SBC meter, and a Minolta Auto Meter IV (digital).

Surprisingly they all agree... Despite being so different. Can't say the same about my cameras!! At least the three F-1 cameras I have agree with each other. And two of the three Pentax MX i had did agree too.

I have recalibrated my Nikon F2A so it agrees with the other cameras.


You need to have all you light meters calibrated as well as all cameras; you do not know which are correct and which are wrong.
 

flavio81

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You need to have all you light meters calibrated as well as all cameras; you do not know which are correct and which are wrong.

I would need a digital instrument then, and I leave the digital work for the urologists and proctologists.
 

Sirius Glass

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I would need a digital instrument then, and I leave the digital work for the urologists and proctologists.

No, you need to send all the equipment to George at Quality Light Metric.
 

DREW WILEY

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I personally hate any camera where the viewfinder resembles an airplane cockpit, or where you have to read a manual as thick as a phone book to learn how to turn off all the supplemental features in order to take a picture. The simpler the better. All you need is a shutter speed setting, the f-stop setting, and then focus. Everything else is a distraction. I've used the same style of handheld meters for decades anyway, all calibrated by the same tech noted on the previous post, and use them for every camera and film format. I had a pro friend who was once head photographer for the US Navy and then a White House photographer among other things, who couldn't imagine life without his full-featured F6. But I can't imagine being involved with a complicated camera like that at all. It's hard enough dealing with rightside-up images apart from a darkcloth!
 
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Huss

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I have the aforesaid LunaSix, recently recalibrated, two LunaPros, two Weston master IIIs (one as new in box) with the Invercone, a Gossen N100, and a Weston from the '30s which was my first real meter.
That (now ancient and non functional) Weston, along wth a Kodak 35 rf and Kodachrome gav

@
Small penis syndrome for certain.
'Splains a lot.

You want to explain that?
People may have disagreements on this site, but I have rarely seen them be vulgar.
 

BradS

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You want to explain that?
People may have disagreements on this site, but I have rarely seen them be vulgar.

Just ignore him. He has a long history here. His most egregious behavior, of course, gets delete by the mods.
 
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E. von Hoegh

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You want to explain that?
People may have disagreements on this site, but I have rarely seen them be vulgar.
Re read your posts.
You boast of your abilty to have expensive gear. You draw attention to yourself because you can.
Although I will say that you are more positive than you were two or so years ago.
 

138S

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Congratulation ! this is a nice collection !!!

Of the F series you only lack the F and the F5, it would not be a great investment to complete the collection, but as the others look mint, those additions should also look mint...

A friend has the F2 to F5, next addition he plans is a F...

Collecting the F series is quite wonderful, one feels the evolution of the 35mm Pro film photography !!!!

...and shooting any of those is pure joy.
 

Craig75

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Re read your posts.
You boast of your abilty to have expensive gear. You draw attention to yourself because you can.
Although I will say that you are more positive than you were two or so years ago.

Come on mods get it sorted
 

BradS

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Come on mods get it sorted

If they’re not going to ban him, I think they should let it stand so there is a record. Like I said, this guy has a long track record of coarse behavior...much of it has been cleansed by the mods.
 
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