What is the difference between Pacific image 120 and 120 pro?

[Radost]

Like the title says.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Did you ask them?

 

[mcrokkorx]

This question pops up periodically on various photography forums: I forget what the answer was last time, but IIRC Pacific Image itself does not acknowledge the existence of a PF 120 "non-Pro" in their support pages (so script-drone company reps are unlikely to provide any useful info). All PF120 web reviews going back years mention only the Pro version, which might indicate the non-Pro was on the market briefly before being replaced. My only bookmark referencing the non-Pro points to a dead link at B&H Photo (who currently list only the PF120 Pro model). The Pacific Image PF120 (non-Pro) was also sold under the Reflecta MF5000 and Braun FS120 brand names: the Braun was slightly different internally (somewhat upgraded performance).

Confusingly, another very similar (but not identical) scanner garners a lot of "Pro" vs "non-Pro" discussions: the Plustek OpticFilm 120 (manual focus control being the only significant addition to the Pro version).

An alarming percentage of buyers of all these scanners have been disappointed by defects within weeks or months of purchase: all have a history of developing significant issues (regardless of Pro or non-Pro). If you buy one, test the heck out of it during the exchange/return period. Repairs can be quite pricey out of warranty, and require shipping to and from a central service facility. Not a good risk second hand unless you get a very steep discount and can test before paying.

 

[fs999]

Repairs can be quite pricey out of warranty

Ten days after Warranty the transformer burned the mainboard of my Plustek OpticFilm 120. I sent it at Plustek in Germany, they asked 265 Euro to look at it. One week later I received it back with a new mainboard and nothing more to pay !

 

[mcrokkorx]

Ten days after Warranty the transformer burned the mainboard of my Plustek OpticFilm 120. I sent it at Plustek in Germany, they asked 265 Euro to look at it. One week later I received it back with a new mainboard and nothing more to pay !

That is excellent service at a reasonable price.

Owner reports in North America have been more mixed regarding service and support: Germany/EU has much stronger post-warranty product support laws than US/Canada. On this side of the world, repairs have been more costly and certain issues like banding keep returning despite new parts, new unit production runs, new software updates. It seems the broader demand and sales volume 20 years ago allowed Nikon, PolaroidMikrotek, and Konica/Minolta to source somewhat more reliable hardware for their 120 film scanners, a good number of which are still working properly today or can be DIY serviced when they develop relatively simple issues. The new generation of 120 film scanners released since 2012 have proved more problematic and difficult to keep running.

The luckier owners of problem-free Pacific Image/Reflecta/Braun and Plustek 120 film scanners are very satisfied with their performance, and the opportunity to own a brand new scanner instead of an antique. As with any very niche high-tech product, one has to be willing to gamble: the odds are about 50/50 you'll be lucky vs running into repeated issues.

 

[Radost]

That is excellent service at a reasonable price.

Owner reports in North America have been more mixed regarding service and support: Germany/EU has much stronger post-warranty product support laws than US/Canada. On this side of the world, repairs have been more costly and certain issues like banding keep returning despite new parts, new unit production runs, new software updates. It seems the broader demand and sales volume 20 years ago allowed Nikon, PolaroidMikrotek, and Konica/Minolta to source somewhat more reliable hardware for their 120 film scanners, a good number of which are still working properly today or can be DIY serviced when they develop relatively simple issues. The new generation of 120 film scanners released since 2012 have proved more problematic and difficult to keep running.

The luckier owners of problem-free Pacific Image/Reflecta/Braun and Plustek 120 film scanners are very satisfied with their performance, and the opportunity to own a brand new scanner instead of an antique. As with any very niche high-tech product, one has to be willing to gamble: the odds are about 50/50 you'll be lucky vs running into repeated issues.

can you elaborate on older 120 scanners to look for? Coolscan 9000 not in the budget.

 

[mcrokkorx]

There aren't really any older 120 film scanners that could be described as "bargains" today: demand has kept pace since they were discontinued, so prices never really depreciated much.

The Minolta Multi Pro II has a rabid following, very limited availability, usually gets snapped up immediately at prices higher than the Nikon 9000 when they do appear. The original Multi Pro (no "II") sometimes turns up below $1000 but has somewhat lower resolution and overall performance than the II (its also known to be more problematic to get running on anything newer than Windows 2000 Pro).

The Nikons are still inflated, although you can find decent deals on the CS8000 if you're patient (I did a few years ago, and still see them occasionally). The 9000 vs 8000 price discrepancy is all about speed: if you can afford a 9000, it has the advantage of significantly faster operation, otherwise for all practical purposes the 8000 is barely any older and nearly identical (aside from the very slight 9000 circuit upgrades). Every now and then, Nikon makes a bonehead design error they refuse to own up to and solve: their solution is to deny the problem then throw together a warmed-over new model without it. The 8000 had a flawed scan head that can't operate at the speed it was meant to without banding, so you need to always use the "fine" (i.e. dead slow) option in the software. The 9000 has a revised scan head that can operate at the intended triple speed without banding, but often sells for twice as much as the 8000. If you've got time to kill, the 8000 is a good buy.

Your best shot at an affordable 120 film scanner would likely be the Polaroid SprintScan 120 (aka MicroTek Artixscan 120). These do not have hardware dust/scratch removal, so their original new and used price was below Nikon and Minolta. Performance is comparable to the older Minolta MultiPro. Good units, fairly easygoing about use with newer computers, but getting harder to find with complete set of film trays. Polaroid bundled an excellent software dust/scratch utility that could be used standalone or as a PhotoShop filter: configured carefully it works surprisingly well.

The older generation (pre-Hasselblad-branding) Imacon FlexTight Precision scanners sometimes turn up at very attractive prices, but connect only via SCSI (which all but requires hunting down a 20+ year old Apple Mac unless you want to mess with installing SCSI in a PC). Software and drivers can be an issue on newer OSes, and this type of scanner design has parts that wear and need to be replaced (obtaining the parts might be tricky).

Other old scanners for the adventurous would be the large hi-res pre-press flatbeds made by Creo-Fuji-Scitex-Heidelberg. These had very sophisticated software and could batch scan entire rolls of film at once: basically Epson v700 on steroids. Extraordinary results are possible with these. But large heavy units that only rarely come up for sale at a discount (usually only examples with missing software are bargains: they're useless without their proprietary software). Typically require an equally old Apple Mac to run them.

If you don't have money to burn, look into camera scanning via DSLR or mirrorless camera (Nikon D850, Sony A7, Nikon Z, etc). Pulling together a really solid setup of film holder, light source and copy stand could run over $1000, OTOH very quick operation and no proprietary drivers or connections to worry about. Stitching can offer a wide range of super high resolution.

 

[Radost]

There aren't really any older 120 film scanners that could be described as "bargains" today: demand has kept pace since they were discontinued, so prices never really depreciated much.

The Minolta Multi Pro II has a rabid following, very limited availability, usually gets snapped up immediately at prices higher than the Nikon 9000 when they do appear. The original Multi Pro (no "II") sometimes turns up below $1000 but has somewhat lower resolution and overall performance than the II (its also known to be more problematic to get running on anything newer than Windows 2000 Pro).

The Nikons are still inflated, although you can find decent deals on the CS8000 if you're patient (I did a few years ago, and still see them occasionally). The 9000 vs 8000 price discrepancy is all about speed: if you can afford a 9000, it has the advantage of significantly faster operation, otherwise for all practical purposes the 8000 is barely any older and nearly identical (aside from the very slight 9000 circuit upgrades). Every now and then, Nikon makes a bonehead design error they refuse to own up to and solve: their solution is to deny the problem then throw together a warmed-over new model without it. The 8000 had a flawed scan head that can't operate at the speed it was meant to without banding, so you need to always use the "fine" (i.e. dead slow) option in the software. The 9000 has a revised scan head that can operate at the intended triple speed without banding, but often sells for twice as much as the 8000. If you've got time to kill, the 8000 is a good buy.

Your best shot at an affordable 120 film scanner would likely be the Polaroid SprintScan 120 (aka MicroTek Artixscan 120). These do not have hardware dust/scratch removal, so their original new and used price was below Nikon and Minolta. Performance is comparable to the older Minolta MultiPro. Good units, fairly easygoing about use with newer computers, but getting harder to find with complete set of film trays. Polaroid bundled an excellent software dust/scratch utility that could be used standalone or as a PhotoShop filter: configured carefully it works surprisingly well.

The older generation (pre-Hasselblad-branding) Imacon FlexTight Precision scanners sometimes turn up at very attractive prices, but connect only via SCSI (which all but requires hunting down a 20+ year old Apple Mac unless you want to mess with installing SCSI in a PC). Software and drivers can be an issue on newer OSes, and this type of scanner design has parts that wear and need to be replaced (obtaining the parts might be tricky).

Other old scanners for the adventurous would be the large hi-res pre-press flatbeds made by Creo-Fuji-Scitex-Heidelberg. These had very sophisticated software and could batch scan entire rolls of film at once: basically Epson v700 on steroids. Extraordinary results are possible with these. But large heavy units that only rarely come up for sale at a discount (usually only examples with missing software are bargains: they're useless without their proprietary software). Typically require an equally old Apple Mac to run them.

If you don't have money to burn, look into camera scanning via DSLR or mirrorless camera (Nikon D850, Sony A7, Nikon Z, etc). Pulling together a really solid setup of film holder, light source and copy stand could run over $1000, OTOH very quick operation and no proprietary drivers or connections to worry about. Stitching can offer a wide range of super high resolution.

thank you for the great information.
As far as DSLR/mirrorless scanning goes I compared it to my Pacific image XAS 35mm scans and it is not even close. Even some of my reputable lab scans are not as good as XAS. Not to mention dslr takes a lot more time than xas scanning.
I wish they come up with a 120 scanner on the level of the XAS. I would buy it.

 

[mcrokkorx]

I wish they come up with a 120 scanner on the level of the XAS. I would buy it.

If you like your Pacific Image XAS for 35mm, you might be very happy with their PF120 Pro model (if you get a good example: some people do). Possibly due to the bad rap they (and esp Plustek) have received on forums the past few years, price has come way down on new stock. Specialty photo dealers like B&H or Adorama currently offer the PF120 Pro brand new with rebate discount bringing final price to $1299, which is a steal compared to what used medium format scanners sell for (the 20 y/o Nikon CS8000 goes for more than that).

Depending on how much crucial 120 scanning you need to do, and how much time you have available to do it, you may be able to get a large percentage of it done during the exchange/return window for a new PF120 Pro. If the scanner is faulty, return or exchange it. If it proves reliable during that initial period, chances are it will last at least a few months more, during which you might be able to finish your project. Pacific Image seems determined to support this model with post-warranty (you pay) repairs, so if 120 is an ongoing shooting format for you the scanner might be sustainable for a few years.

But.

These new-era medium format film scanners remain a tricky purchase. A certain percentage are plain defective out of the box, others start out OK then go faulty after a few months. You must be prepared to deal with the possibility of returns/exchanges and perhaps the expense of post-warranty repairs. It also helps to study forum threads on how to use these scanners most successfully: just like older models, they can be extremely sensitive to setup, drivers, operating system and other software installed on your computer.

Windows 10 is typically a disaster in waiting, the new Macs with new M1 cpu/OS are also prone to scanner issues. Your best chance of success is an older computer you buy cheap second hand: erase it completely, install a large fast HDD and max out the RAM, install a clean Windows 7 or older Mac OS, disable automatic OS updates, install the scanner software and maybe your photo processing apps, and nothing else whatsoever. Keep this second desktop or laptop as a dedicated scanning workstation: don't use it for email, web surfing, gaming, social media or anything else but scanning and photo retouching. Check the scanner software instructions and forum threads (rangefinderforum has a lot of detailed scanner threads) to learn the optimal setting and memory requirements: thats what you'll want to run your scanner.

 

[Paul Ozzello]

Like the title says.

The Pro is supposed to have adjustable focus.

 

[fs999]

The Pro is supposed to have adjustable focus.

+ Faster transfer speed with USB 3.0
+ Redesigned 120 holder and recognized holders
+ Only three holders

 

[brbo]

Pacific Image 120 (Pro) is not the same as Plustek 120 (Pro)!

The above listed differences by fs999 and fatso apply to Plustek 120 (Pro) scanner.

 

[fs999]

The above listed differences by fs999 and fatso apply to Plustek 120 (Pro) scanner.

Never verified if the Pacific Image was the same as the Plustek, I've only heard from someone saying it was a rebadged Plustek, which is false. Mea culpa.

 

[Paul Ozzello]

Ooops my bad. By the way does anyone know what's going on with the Plustek optifilm 120 Pro ??