What is going on with 35mm

[_T_]

I haven’t shot 35 in about 6 years or so and my girlfriend just got a little point and shoot recently.

I was on B&H buying 4x5 portra 400 and I thought I’d use the free shipping it gave me to pick up a couple rolls for her.

I thought things were difficult for large format shooters but what’s going on with color negative 35 is something else. None of the go to have much of anything. And what is available is either very expensive or ridiculously expensive.

How long have things been like this?

 

[albada]

Between production problems due to Covid and increasing popularity of film, demand exceeds supply. That's why expired film sells quickly in Photrio's classifieds.

 

[Bronson Dugnutt]

This poster may be fully [Redacted]

 

[Paul Howell]

As noted above, demand is high, the camera shop near me is now all film, I've seem folks come in and buy 20 to 30 rolls at a time, the manager got 200 rolls of 35mm Porta, he was sold out in 3 days. You can find expired rolls on Ebay and ESTAY, I'm shooting my few rolls of frozen color then will shoot digital until I get not only film but R4 chemistry as well. Looking at Freestyle seems all 35mm is out of stock, Ultrafine (PhotoWearhouse) has repurposed movie film, ECN-2 in stock, needs to be processed in ECN-2 chemistry or have the rem-jet backing removed to be processed in C-41.

 

[ic-racer]

What is going on with 35mm

Maybe you did not expect it but there is quite a resurgence in diversity in B&W film. Quick check of Freestyle shows all these brands (in addition to the well known ones).
Babylon Kino
CatLABS X
Film Washi
FPP Derev
Holga
JCH StreetPan
KONO! Monolit
Kosmo Foto Agent
Postdam Kino
New Classic EZ400
Revolog Snovlox
Street Candy
Svema FN-64
Wolfen DP31

 

[Paul Howell]

Just to clarify with a question, isn't all the 3rd party film repackaged Kodak Vision movie film?

 

[AgX]

Maybe you did not expect it but there is quite a resurgence in diversity in B&W film. Quick check of Freestyle shows all these brands (in addition to the well known ones).
Babylon Kino
CatLABS X
Film Washi
FPP Derev
Holga
JCH StreetPan
KONO! Monolit
Kosmo Foto Agent
Postdam Kino
New Classic EZ400
Revolog Snovlox
Street Candy
Svema FN-64
Wolfen DP31

Yes, and no...

We have to differ:
-) "fun films", that are standard films from big manufacturers that got tweaked for strong effects (e.g. pre-exposed) (so far only for colour films to my knowledge)
-) "brand films" that are films straight from big manufacturers, but just rebranded to make them look exotic and yield higher prices
-) repurposed films from big manufactuers sold under an exotic name/brand
-) fims coated at boutique manufacturers

 

[ic-racer]

Yes, and no...

We have to differ:
-) "fun films", that are standard films from big manufacturers that got tweaked for strong effects (e.g. pre-exposed) (so far only for colour films to my knowledge)
-) "brand films" that are films straight from big manufacturers, but just rebranded to make them look exotic and yield higher prices
-) repurposed films from big manufactuers sold under an exotic name/brand
-) fims coated at boutique manufacturers

Mostly I was commenting on Diversität, in english just that there are more choices than in many years.

 

[AgX]

My point was that choices that only differ in branding are no choices filmwise. Though there may be differences in local availability and in prices.

 

[pentaxuser]

If the trend of price increase and stock decrease gets any worse, at what point will it be cheaper to have your b&w prints hand-coloured by experts?

On only a slightly more serious note I see no reason why matters will improve anytime soon on price or availability

pentaxuser

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Not colour, but I've been bracing myself for a "significant" price increase by Ilford, shortly. This was relayed to me by the manager of Kerrisdale Camera here where I live. That is all he could tell me when I prodded him for more details.

 

[NB23]

Everybody wants to be like Saul Leiter. No digi-BS comes close.

 

[250swb]

How long have things been like this?

It's a harsh lesson to look back at the good old days, but in reality these are the good new days, film didn't die in the early 2000's. But manufacturers have moved from producing colour film 24hrs a day to running the machines when worldwide stock levels get low, meaning some will be coming along soon at which point the price gougers will be temporarily out of business until the next drought, so put some in the freezer.

 

[NB23]

Instead of pumping prices they should pump production.

Yeah, kodak the amateur run business has to shape up.

 

[faberryman]

I don't recall reading anything about Kodak increasing its production capacity, so I don't expect the shortage of color film to abate.

 

[gone]

W/o seeing the actual numbers, I'm suspicious about the common notion that this is something related to supply issues and things like that. To me, it's no different than Sprouts Grocery store selling a bell pepper for $4. I think that's crazy, and don't shop there.

This ain't rocket science. If film is flying out the door at these high prices, what is the incentive for the sellers to cut the prices later on?

I'll tell you what that incentive is: None. It's invisible, because it doesn't exist. How often has anyone seen analog photography costs fall, not rise? If I shot color, I'd switch to digital or something. If the B&W film prices go in this direction, I'll do alternate photography and jettison 35mm and roll films altogether. But I am NOT going to pay $130 plus tax for 5 rolls of 120 Porta like I see on eBay.

 

[Paul Howell]

Once the GenX, GenY and other hipster (sorry if I am not current on current tags) get tired and move on or if Fuji ramps up production, of if Ferraina gets it's act together and starts production of any color film, prices will drop. I can live without color film, I shoot 90% black and white, if monochrome film doubles up I will shoot less. Currently I shoot around 3 to 6 rolls a week, I could make do with 2 or 3 rolls, 6 sheets of 4X5 an outing.

 

[Sirius Glass]

W/o seeing the actual numbers, I'm suspicious about the common notion that this is something related to supply issues and things like that. To me, it's no different than Sprouts Grocery store selling a bell pepper for $4. I think that's crazy, and don't shop there.

This ain't rocket science. If film is flying out the door at these high prices, what is the incentive for the sellers to cut the prices later on?

I'll tell you what that incentive is: None. It's invisible, because it doesn't exist. How often has anyone seen analog photography costs fall, not rise? If I shot color, I'd switch to digital or something. If the B&W film prices go in this direction, I'll do alternate photography and jettison 35mm and roll films altogether. But I am NOT going to pay $130 plus tax for 5 rolls of 120 Porta like I see on eBay.

Green bell pepper has been $0.79 eachfor most of the summer and that is the price today at Sprouts. Red pepper has been from $1.25 to $1.50 each for most of the summer. If your reporting of film prices as a accurate as the Sprouts prices, there is a huge credibility price.

 

[MattKing]

Eastman Kodak, for one, is struggling to:
1) find qualified people to increase their staffing levels;
2) obtain required constituent materials, in a timely manner, at reasonable cost;
3) increase the capacity of the bottlenecks in production - primarily in relation to the finishing/confectioning part of production; and
4) in conjunction with Kodak Alaris, get product into the worldwide distribution chains.
They have limited capital - which impacts many parts of the production chain - and a small workforce, and they are dealing with unprecedented worldwide disruptions in distribution chains.

 

[_T_]

So I stopped by one of my local camera shops and things were just as bad there. Not one roll of 35 color negative available. They had a couple rolls of e100 but they wanted like $25 each. No thanks.

I ended up getting a bunch of different B&W film for my girlfriend. She shot exclusively TMX and TMY when she was learning to shoot, develop and scan for simplicity’s sake, but she never had much chance to explore B&W because she moved on so quickly to color so she’s excited to try all the variety of emulsions available and see what she likes.

She’s been shooting 6x7 for the past several years so she’ll just keep doing that for color

For me I almost never shoot color anyway. I just bought a couple of boxes of Mummy 400 for 4x5 because it was too good of a deal to pass up so I’m pretty happy with my supply.

W/o seeing the actual numbers, I'm suspicious about the common notion that this is something related to supply issues and things like that. To me, it's no different than Sprouts Grocery store selling a bell pepper for $4. I think that's crazy, and don't shop there.

This ain't rocket science. If film is flying out the door at these high prices, what is the incentive for the sellers to cut the prices later on?

I'll tell you what that incentive is: None. It's invisible, because it doesn't exist. How often has anyone seen analog photography costs fall, not rise? If I shot color, I'd switch to digital or something. If the B&W film prices go in this direction, I'll do alternate photography and jettison 35mm and roll films altogether. But I am NOT going to pay $130 plus tax for 5 rolls of 120 Porta like I see on eBay.

I agree with you for the most part. The supply chain of companies that were producing the materials necessary for a lot of film producers to operate went under so the business partnerships that film manufacturers had in place that allowed them to take advantage of the scale of the market pre digital revolution are irreparably lost at this point.

I don’t want to pay these ridiculous film prices either but like you say when demand outpaces supply you get supply side economics. The businesses are going to gouge for profit because they have a responsibility to their shareholders to do so.

But I’m happy to see that demand is high again. It was looking like film really might be going away with all of those Fuji emulsions being canceled.

I just hope it’s not some fad that will fade in a couple years and leave people like me holding the bag.

If the demand can be sustained we could see new upline manufacturers and a greater scale of production which could bring the supply in line with demand and get the prices back down. That’s the only way it’s going to happen.

The alternative is fewer and fewer people shooting film as the suppliers slowly dismantle themselves to protect profits and then the technology will be lost like what happened to Polaroid and then no more film.

 

[MattKing]

One of the biggest factors is probably the apparent, hopefully temporary, cessation of production of all non-Instax film products by Fuji.

 

[pentaxuser]

If I were in charge of EK or KA and had trimmed my production so that meeting current demand could be both difficult and costly for reasons given by Matt and I saw that eventually other players were entering the market I might be tempted to exploit the excess prices that my colour films' demand can produce currently .

It might well be the safer bet in terms of revenue. Then if demand suddenly slows due to the drop in disposal income caused by reasons that, if said, would quickly get posts deleted on political grounds( relegation to the Soapbox being no longer an option). I have lost nothing as I haven't tried to increase supply due to aforementioned reasons and costs . I have made "hay while the sun shone" at no or little increase in cost which had I made changes might not be repaid

Just some thoughts, of course

pentaxuser

 

[Huss]

Eastman Kodak, for one, is struggling to:
1) find qualified people to increase their staffing levels;
..

They should recruit at Photrio.

 

[MattKing]

They should recruit at Photrio.

They are looking for younger, more recently educated people who might be willing to train to become appropriate replacements for a highly experienced workforce with very specialized knowledge but too few years before retirement.

 

[jtk]

Green bell pepper has been $0.79 eachfor most of the summer and that is the price today at Sprouts. Red pepper has been from $1.25 to $1.50 each for most of the summer. If your reporting of film prices as a accurate as the Sprouts prices, there is a huge credibility price.

Red pepper has taken longer to get that way....green is less ripe.

They are looking for younger, more recently educated people who might be willing to train to become appropriate replacements for a highly experienced workforce with very specialized knowledge but too few years before retirement.

They are looking for younger, more recently educated people who might be willing to train to become appropriate replacements for a highly experienced workforce with very specialized knowledge but too few years before retirement.

There is nobody with skills who wants to live anywhere near Rochester. Unless somebody loves bangers and mash they wouldn't move to GB either. California is crowded because people want to live there and if they leave they won't like living anywhere else.