What is "Fine Art"?

VinceInMT · Apr 18, 2022

If artist statements and talks are nonsense, what about art criticism. I read quite a few art journals which go into depth on everything from movements to artists to “the system.” While I don’t always have the same point of view, I do find them enlightening.

BTW, I like the writings of academic, gallery owner, and critic, Dave Hickey. His book “Air Guitar: Essays on Art & Democracy” is great. He was (passed away last fall) a sort of bad boy of art critics and loved to take on the whole system. The title of his book comes from his claim that art criticism has as much to do with art as air guitar does with rock and roll.

jnamia · Apr 18, 2022

Craig75 said:
Hardly constructive for members to be the art police on a forum of photographers though.

We may as well have a trip into the mindgarden and see how one can be so certain it is not art.

I agree it's just an opinion amongst the powerless but it becomes a statement of fact when backed up by institutions, universities, and money.

hi craig75, not sure what the art police are, but I think TFC's opinion is from an educated and gallerists perspective.

when any institution has a requirement like an statement, it is just an obstacle that most people can easily go over to see if they are serious about whatever they are doing. writing an artist statement, like 5 sentences, it's not an 80page thesis that one has to defend in front of a panel of 12 people .. I don't really see what the problem is. granted most people on this website photograph as a hobby for pleasure they might not be submitting their work to museums or high end galleries &c and don't have to or need to jump through the hoops that others who are part of the discourse do, so I can see why the idea of writing a succinct statement about their images might seem kind of not worth it ...
I just saw whoever it was compared himself to Gaudi and Picasso ? if that's true an artist statement could be written in about 3 minutes not sure what the problem is, if he's that good should have plenty to say.
.

Sirius Glass · Apr 18, 2022

TheFlyingCamera said:
It takes something to compare yourself to Picasso and Gaudi. And by the way, it was the Renaissance, not the Reconnaissance.

Renaissance painters didn't need artists statements because they were almost exclusively painting one of two subjects - religious iconography or thinly-veiled erotica in the form of allusions to classical antiquity. Actually, until the mid-19th century, artists statements were unnecessary because the vast majority of art being created was being created for patrons on commission, not being marketed by the artists to a leisure class whose disposable income they needed to attract.

Of course an artists statement is not necessary to do art. You can sit in your basement and do art all you want, and show it to nobody, and you'll never need an artists statement. If you sit in your basement and do art and only show it to the people who you invite into your home, you don't need an artists statement. If sit in your basement and make art and show it at camera clubs or coffee shops, you probably don't need an artists statement. BUT, if you want to be part of a cultural dialog and contribute to that dialog with your art, then you better damn well have one so that you can actually participate.

Note that an artists statement does not have to be twenty-five paragraphs of Lorem Ipsum-esque artspeak. It could be something as simple as a plain English description of your body of work. And it never hurt anyone to be able to speak coherently about the work that they do.

I was not comparing myself to Picasso and Gaudi, however I am quite happy that you see me at the same level. Thank you.
Gaudi's work is much newer than the Renaissance.

KerrKid · Apr 18, 2022

Arthurwg said:
We usually call them poetry.

Good one!

Pieter12 · Apr 18, 2022

Geez, I turn away for a short time and this pile of shit only gets worse. Art is made by people who are obviously not part of this forum. And artist's statements are written by those who care to elucidate their audience.

Renato Tonelli · Apr 18, 2022

Warning! Thread gone off the rails.

To the die-hard naysayers on artist's statements: if a gallery invited you to show some of your work along with a brief artist's statement (saying basically why you took those photographs) you would refuse?

BTW - LensWork has an excellent guide on writing an artist's statement with lots of suggestions pertinent to photography.

MattKing · Apr 18, 2022

Pieter12 said:
Art is made by people who are obviously not part of this forum.

That is a bit sweeping. More appropriately, many on this forum who comment on Art have very narrow and judgmental views of others who actually make Art.

VinceInMT · Apr 19, 2022

Maybe if someone is unable to, or refuses t, write an artist statement, they aren’t an artist.

Craig75 · Apr 19, 2022

jnania said:
Alan they have nothing to do with mission statements.
it's too bad people go through great lengths to marginalize people ...

hi craig75, not sure what the art police are, but I think TFC's opinion is from an educated and gallerists perspective.

when any institution has a requirement like an statement, it is just an obstacle that most people can easily go over to see if they are serious about whatever they are doing. writing an artist statement, like 5 sentences, it's not an 80page thesis that one has to defend in front of a panel of 12 people .. I don't really see what the problem is. granted most people on this website photograph as a hobby for pleasure they might not be submitting their work to museums or high end galleries &c and don't have to or need to jump through the hoops that others who are part of the discourse do, so I can see why the idea of writing a succinct statement about their images might seem kind of not worth it ...
I just saw whoever it was compared himself to Gaudi and Picasso ? if that's true an artist statement could be written in about 3 minutes not sure what the problem is, if he's that good should have plenty to say.
.

Oh I don't have a problem with artists statements- if one feels the need to write one then by all means. If the gallery insists then play their game or don't- it's hardly like the gallery system is the be all and end of all of anything in 21st century.

I was just referring to concept of " art" / "not art"

jnamia · Apr 19, 2022

these comments about artist statements on this website are nothing new. they are hand in glove with the marginalization of people who are educated, who may be successful &c by anti-elitists anti-art snobs. it's like when someone makes a post about somebody who might have sold something for a large sum of money, the peanut gallery comes out and makes all their comments. it's always done by the same handful of people, right on cue and really tiring, and drives people who are educated, and are successful away from this website. it's really too bad, because if I wanted to learn about the art world, how to make my art better, learn about artist statements, learn how to be successful, I wouldn't be letting "anti elitists" be the most vocal people on the website and have them drive away the people who know what they are talking about and are experienced.( even though some of these anti-art snobs claim to be more successful more educated &c &c)

craig75, not sure why you keep suggesting it's a game, it's not a game. is being able to talk about what and why you are doing what you are doing really that hard that it's got to be referred to as some sort of game ? I used to own a gallery with a handful of people, and we were not the type of place that required artist statements to hang things on the wall, we were the opposite. it was always a pleasure to be able to talk to people who were potential buyers about "the work" if we knew more about how, and why it was made. if educating oneself about the images or paintings or whatever is a game it's kind of necessary.

oh, I didn't know it was an art not art thing, sorry for my confusion. you'd think when someone compares themselves to Pablo Picasso and Antonio Gaudi they'd be able to write 4 sentences about what they are doing, seeing they are "that good" ...
btw, my comment about marginalizing people wasn't / isn't directed towards you ...

Craig75 · Apr 19, 2022

jnania said:
these comments about artist statements on this website are nothing new. they are hand in glove with the marginalization of people who are educated, who may be successful &c by anti-elitists anti-art snobs. it's like when someone makes a post about somebody who might have sold something for a large sum of money, the peanut gallery comes out and makes all their comments. it's always done by the same handful of people, right on cue and really tiring, and drives people who are educated, and are successful away from this website. it's really too bad, because if I wanted to learn about the art world, how to make my art better, learn about artist statements, learn how to be successful, I wouldn't be letting "anti elitists" be the most vocal people on the website and have them drive away the people who know what they are talking about and are experienced.

craig75, not sure why you keep suggesting it's a game, it's not a game. is being able to talk about what and why you are doing what you are doing really that hard that it's got to be referred to as some sort of game ? I used to own a gallery with a handful of people, and we were not the type of place that required artist statements to hang things on the wall, we were the opposite. it was always a pleasure to be able to talk to people who were potential buyers about "the work" if we knew more about how, and why it was made. if educating oneself about the images or paintings or whatever is a game it's kind of necessary.

oh, I didn't know it was an art not art thing, sorry for my confusion. you'd think when someone compares themselves to Pablo Picasso and Antonio Gaudi they'd be able to write 4 sentences about what they are doing, seeing they are "that good" ...
btw, my comment about marginalizing people wasn't / isn't directed towards you ...

That's OK. I wasn't that clear (and it's good to see you back on site)

I would say re: statements that personally it's entirely valid to wish Yr photos to be accompanied by a 400 page book if you so wish.

Where the issue for me is in the prescription of statements which automatically

1. Excludes a whole slew of thought (eg. Those who might consider visuals / dance / etc to transcend the tyranny of language as an example)
2. Demands work be contextualised when the artist wishes it to be ambiguous or wishes audience to do with it as they wish.

There is also an irrelevance - I have certainly spoken to art historians for whom the artists position is irrelevant as they "don't understand what they are doing" anyway.

Alan Edward Klein · Apr 19, 2022

VinceInMT said:
Double up the class load. ;-)

I took 3 studio art classes one semester and spent so much time on campus I considered getting a room in the dorms.

As for not having 7 years, are you saying that you know of or have exit plan?

Well, even if I have at least the seven years, God willing, I might forget more than I remember from the course.

Alan Edward Klein · Apr 19, 2022

Often, captions under a photo are like an artist's statement trying to capture the audience. Such as, "Beautiful Sunset VIew" or "Fastest Dancer in Town." No point letting the photo just stand on its own when a few choice adjectives could help. Then, there are those nature shots of birds captioned, "Beautiful Blue Tits".

Alan Edward Klein · Apr 19, 2022

jnamia said:
these comments about artist statements on this website are nothing new. they are hand in glove with the marginalization of people who are educated, who may be successful &c by anti-elitists anti-art snobs. it's like when someone makes a post about somebody who might have sold something for a large sum of money, the peanut gallery comes out and makes all their comments. it's always done by the same handful of people, right on cue and really tiring, and drives people who are educated, and are successful away from this website. it's really too bad, because if I wanted to learn about the art world, how to make my art better, learn about artist statements, learn how to be successful, I wouldn't be letting "anti elitists" be the most vocal people on the website and have them drive away the people who know what they are talking about and are experienced.( even though some of these anti-art snobs claim to be more successful more educated &c &c)

craig75, not sure why you keep suggesting it's a game, it's not a game. is being able to talk about what and why you are doing what you are doing really that hard that it's got to be referred to as some sort of game ? I used to own a gallery with a handful of people, and we were not the type of place that required artist statements to hang things on the wall, we were the opposite. it was always a pleasure to be able to talk to people who were potential buyers about "the work" if we knew more about how, and why it was made. if educating oneself about the images or paintings or whatever is a game it's kind of necessary.

oh, I didn't know it was an art not art thing, sorry for my confusion. you'd think when someone compares themselves to Pablo Picasso and Antonio Gaudi they'd be able to write 4 sentences about what they are doing, seeing they are "that good" ...
btw, my comment about marginalizing people wasn't / isn't directed towards you ...

I think you make some very good points about how an artist's statement helps in presentation. Being able to create a statement about a particular work may help curate a bunch of photos for a book or gallery exhibit that have consistency and work well together. Otherwise, it could become a smear of unrelated images.

I think you are a little tough on the people who argue against artists' statements, that they might be superfluous. This forum is made up of many amateurs like myself who may not see the point. Being an open forum means that you're going to get views all over the place. Their views are just as valid as yours.

jnamia · Apr 19, 2022

Alan Edward Klein said:
Often, captions under a photo are like an artist's statement trying to capture the audience. Such as, "Beautiful Sunset VIew" or "Fastest Dancer in Town." No point letting the photo just stand on its own when a few choice adjectives could help. Then, there are those nature shots of birds captioned, "Beautiful Blue Tits".

captions have absolutely nothing to do with artist statements.

Alan Edward Klein said:
I think you are a little tough on the people who argue against artists' statements, that they might be superfluous. This forum is made up of many amateurs like myself who may not see the point. Being an open forum means that you're going to get views all over the place. Their views are just as valid as yours.

no I don't think I am harsh at all. I seem to have have more choice words to write but it fortunately my edit function is working.

Arthurwg · Apr 19, 2022

Alan Edward Klein said:
Well, even if I have at least the seven years, God willing, I might forget more than I remember from the course.

I don't think it's about what you remember. It's about going through the process.

VinceInMT · Apr 19, 2022

Alan Edward Klein said:
Well, even if I have at least the seven years, God willing, I might forget more than I remember from the course.

I hear you there. The bits of memorization required are lots tougher now than they were 50 years ago. In fact, the primary reason I went for the BFA instead of the BA is that the latter required 4 semesters of a foreign language, which is something that has always been quite difficult for me. So, instead of foreign language, I ended up taking more art classes. I considered that a win.

Arthurwg · Apr 19, 2022

I wonder if Edward Weston every wrote an artist's statement. Probably not. His pictures were his statement. But if you asked I'm sure he could tell you.

TheFlyingCamera · Apr 19, 2022

Arthurwg said:
I wonder if Edward Weston every wrote an artist's statement. Probably not. His pictures were his statement. But if you asked I'm sure he could tell you.

Take a look at the Daybooks - those could count as an artists statement.

KerrKid · Apr 19, 2022

I come from a simpler time. I graduated with a BA in Fine Art in 1981. We did not have artist statements or juried exhibits or anything else that I’m hearing is required these days. We just produced art as well as we were able and were graded on it. Back then, we even learned how to set Linotype and I printed my graduation notices on a platen press.

In 50 years of doing and selling artwork I have never been asked why I did any of it. I think the need to explain your work depends on the type of work it is. I would say that the more abstract or minimalist works would require it more than, say, my realistic drawings of covered bridges, barns, and trees. I have an artist friend whose work absolutely demands explanation. At one of his shows, he depictied his feelings about the year 2020 by hanging a large white blank canvas on the wall at an angle. I’ve seen Vince’s artwork and most of it requires explanation, too. With these two artists, explaining their artwork or otherwise giving backstory on it is not pretentious, it is necessary.

If your school or a gallery requires that you explain your work, then you should meet those requirements without complaint. Maybe they’re requiring it because, with your work, it’s needed.

Don’t you just love first world problems?

Arthurwg · Apr 19, 2022

Yes, I've read both Daybooks. Don't see them as "artist's statements," although the are wonderful and fascinating. I don't think of a grant proposal that way either. But the how and why of those nudes, landscapes and peppers would fit the bill. Still, they are so beautiful, so clearly "Fine Art," that a statement wouldn't be necessary. That's because Weston actually was an artist.

I do think artist's statements, as required in grad school are meant to help the artist figure out what he or she is doing and not the viewer. I don't think Atget ever wrote an artist's statement either.

Don_ih · Apr 19, 2022

Arthurwg said:
I don't think Atget ever wrote an artist's statement either.

In a letter, he probably covered much of what would be considered an artist statement.

"Atget wrote to Paul Léon, minister of fine arts, to offer for sale a portion of his negative collection. The letter begins, “Sir, for more than twenty years I have been working alone and of my own initiative in all the old streets of Old Paris to make a collection of 18 × 24 [centimetre] photographic negatives: artistic documents of beautiful urban architecture from the 16th to the 19th centuries.…Today this enormous artistic and documentary collection is finished; I can say that I possess all of Old Paris.” ---link here.

Sirius Glass · Apr 19, 2022

VinceInMT said:
Maybe if someone is unable to, or refuses t, write an artist statement, they aren’t an artist.

Or they do not have shows or sell in galleries.

Sirius Glass · Apr 19, 2022

Alan Edward Klein said:
Thanks, at 77, I don't think I have 7 years.

I humbly recommend that you adjust you life expectancy to a later date. Then you could spend seven years getting your BFA or MFA and have time to enjoy it. What do you have to loose?

MattKing · Apr 19, 2022

Don Heisz said:
In a letter, he probably covered much of what would be considered an artist statement.

"Atget wrote to Paul Léon, minister of fine arts, to offer for sale a portion of his negative collection. The letter begins, “Sir, for more than twenty years I have been working alone and of my own initiative in all the old streets of Old Paris to make a collection of 18 × 24 [centimetre] photographic negatives: artistic documents of beautiful urban architecture from the 16th to the 19th centuries.…Today this enormous artistic and documentary collection is finished; I can say that I possess all of Old Paris.” ---link here.

That is a good example of an Artist Statement - and a really excellent example of how one might be used.
I think part of the dislike for Artist Statements comes from having encountered some of them which have been designed for the academic world. Some (but not all) of those are incredibly complex and nearly impossible for non-academics to make any sense of.
An Artist Statement referencing a lot of other artist's work is designed for a very limited audience!

What is "Fine Art"?

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