What is "fine art" photography?

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ChristopherCoy

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Wikipedia said:
Fine art photography is photography created in accordance with the vision of the artist as photographer. Fine art photography stands in contrast to representational photography, such as photojournalism, which provides a documentary visual account of specific subjects and events, literally re-presenting objective reality rather than the subjective intent of the photographer; and commercial photography, the primary focus of which is to advertise products or services.


I like photographing dogs. I'm an animal person, and I believe I have a knack for it. I could show you some of my previous work, but its mostly all created with that alternative method.


I did a quick google search for "fine art dog photographer" and came up with a myriad of photos from "fine art photographers" but they were more like "fine portraits" to me. I didn't really see anything that I would personally consider "fine art."


So what determines whether a photo, or body of work is considered "fine art?" Does the photographer determine that? The viewer? The checkbook holder?
 

Xmas

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You say fine art if you can't spell pretentious?
Some use it for silver bromides that need split grade differential burn and dodging, but most of my negs are bad.
 

RobC

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When you know what art is then you'll begin to have a clue. Esssntially the term "Fine Art" is a marketing term for a fancy doodle exhibiting a lesser or greater degree of craft skill. It has nothing to say except look at me, I'm so clever.

Just call yourself a photographer and your work photography then you won't need to worry about what you are or what you're doing and most importantly you won't need to justify what you call yourself and your work with "Fine Artist" exrceta.
 
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removed account4

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this ought to be a fun thread !

chris:

. i'm guessing if you say your dog images are fine art photography you will be able to sell them & your services
for a little more than if you just call them dog pictures .. or if you price them lower, people will KNOW they are
getting something expensive for a deal ...
 

RobC

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this ought to be a fun thread !

chris:

. i'm guessing if you say your dog images are fine art photography you will be able to sell them & your services
for a little more than if you just call them dog pictures .. or if you price them lower, people will KNOW they are
getting something expensive for a deal ...

As I said, its a marketing term as far as photography goes.
 

pdeeh

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FAP?

It's what I do (well, obviously), and what the people I admire do, but of course everybody else's photographs are just snaps and anyone who actually makes money from their snaps are charlatans and the people who buy the photographs dolts and suckers.

And that's not even beginning to cover the iniquity of those who use digital photography and make money from it.

That just about covers it from the APUG pov doesn't it?
 

AgX

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At least in continental Europe "fine arts" is used differently than in the USA. And people here hardly understand the term "fine art photography".
 

BrianShaw

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A fine art dog photograph might be one in which nobody asks the breed, gender,, or name of the dog.
 

Ian Grant

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The OP needs to read and understand the paragraph he quoted.

The term Fine art photography has been in use for many years, it wasn't specifically a marketing term rather a way of categorising and defining different types of photography. There's plenty written on the subject and the debate on the subject is long over in the real world.

Ian
 

gone

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It's all in the eye of the beholder. While I certainly agree that the term is often misused and usually taken as a pretentious way of doing things (galleries are the worst offenders), there's a legitimate use of the word. It's no different in photography than in any other art medium. What makes a piece of pottery a work of art, while another piece is craft? I'd have to say that you just know, or you don't. It's not that big a deal. Perhaps that's as good a definition as any though. It's work that is at another level beyond craft.
 

DWThomas

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Fine Art Photography is what I do when I'm not doing the other kind ...

I think the phrase carries some meaning, but particularly in today's use, that meaning is pretty squishy. I view it mostly as differentiating from "For hire" work where other people would be telling me what to shoot.
 

wiltw

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hmmm, if 'fine art nude' connotes photographing or painting the body in a manner in which the private/usually concealed parts are in the photograph in a manner which conceals or disguises those parts, is a 'fine art pet photograph' photographing or paint the animal body in a manner in which the genitalia are in the photograph in a manner which conceals or disguises those parts?!

:tongue: :wink:
 

RobC

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It's all in the eye of the beholder. While I certainly agree that the term is often misused and usually taken as a pretentious way of doing things (galleries are the worst offenders), there's a legitimate use of the word. It's no different in photography than in any other art medium. What makes a piece of pottery a work of art, while another piece is craft? I'd have to say that you just know, or you don't. It's not that big a deal. Perhaps that's as good a definition as any though. It's work that is at another level beyond craft.

I take exception to this. Craft gets a bad wrap for no other reason than people want to say what they do is better than craft which is a very demeaning take on craft and a pretentious act on the part of the person saying so.
I put a very high value on craft skills and mostly much higher than most of what puports to be art or fine art. For me Art is the chronicle of culture and the vast majority of what is termed art is infact craft because it has little if anything to say about culture. Some of the art is what I would term high order craft but fails my test of being art. Some is mediocre and a lot is pure tat. But one thing is sure and that is craft must be used to create art and most work never makes the transition to being valuable (in the cultural sense) art and remains a piece of craft even when it is a fine (of the highest quality) piece of craft.

Calling a landscape print fine art photography is akin to calling an inkjet print a Giclee print because it sounds so much more superior to the layman.
 

removed account4

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in the end it really doesn't matter what we think it is or isn't .
there is a whole world outside of apug who decides what art is or isn't
what craft is or isn't and when a photograph is more than just a snapshot.

these days many people do fine art photography, and it seems to me to be
a term / expression that has lost its meaning along the way.
it has nothing to do with the dadaists ruining art as a lot of people would hope to say
it has to do with 1880s, george eastman, and the original "KODAK camera
and the democratization of photography making it part of the worldwide material culture.

maybe it has always been a photograph that is more than a snapshot ...
( as the original wiki quote says isn't photojournalism or advertising images but something-else
but then again some advertising images have been sold as "fine art" as well ( the marlboro man, and others )..
and that french kid making snapshots of races and picnics and french turn of the century life/culture )
 

Gerald C Koch

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Calling a landscape print fine art photography is akin to calling an inkjet print a Giclee print because it sounds so much more superior to the layman.

The term gliclee always makes me smile. I wonder if those who appropriated it from the French really knew what it means in French slang. Yes it means squirt but a very particular squirt. :smile:
 
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wiltw

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Terms are all contextual. One has to see a list of terms to understand the nuance of one vs. the other. I would submit that photographs fall into these general categories of purpose:
  • Commercial: to serve the purposes of a business enterprise with product or service to offer
  • Industrial: to serve the purposes of non-commercial illustrations of inanimate objects/processes
  • Scientific: to convey academic elements of inanimate or animate things
  • Illustrative: to portray a written concept via graphic example
  • Journalistic: for the purposes of print media articles and stories
  • Portraiture: to present a likeness of an individual (or small group) in a manner consistent with how you might see them in a chance encounter
  • Fine Art: 'for the sake of Art' (and serving none of the preceding listed purposes)

My point is not whether these are right/wrong, or that this is a comprehensive list. I present it merely as a foil against which 'fine art photography' is validly distinguished from other forms of photography. Other comparative lists can exist, just as validly. Unless a context of a list is presented, it is merely a 'term'
Similary 'PC' can mean 'printed circuit', 'personal computer', 'process controller', 'politically correct'...until you have a CONTEXT to compare within, 'PC' is merely a 'term' with no definition.
 

frank

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Terms are all contextual. One has to see a list of terms to understand the nuance of one vs. the other. I would submit that photographs fall into these general categories of purpose:
  • Commercial: to serve the purposes of a business enterprise with product or service to offer
  • Industrial: to serve the purposes of non-commercial illustrations of inanimate objects/processes
  • Scientific: to convey academic elements of inanimate or animate things
  • Illustrative: to portray a written concept via graphic example
  • Journalistic: for the purposes of print media articles and stories
  • Portraiture: to present a likeness of an individual (or small group) in a manner consistent with how you might see them in a chance encounter
  • Fine Art: 'for the sake of Art' (and serving none of the preceding listed purposes)

My point is not whether these are right/wrong, or that this is a comprehensive list. I present it merely as a foil against which 'fine art photography' is validly distinguished from other forms of photography. Other comparative lists can exist, just as validly. Unless a context of a list is presented, it is merely a 'term'
Similary 'PC' can mean 'printed circuit', 'personal computer', 'process controller', 'politically correct'...until you have a CONTEXT to compare within, 'PC' is merely a 'term' with no definition.

This.^ thank you.

"Fine" in fine art does not mean "good or better" than regular art. I think that's what some people get upset about.
 

DREW WILEY

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"Fine Art" is an expression I'd like to see Finally thrown in the trashcan. It reminds me of MBA's throwing around the expression, "market
share". You can make it mean anything; therefore it really means nothing.
 

Vaughn

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...Calling a landscape print fine art photography is akin to calling an inkjet print a Giclee print because it sounds so much more superior to the layman.

-1,293,591
 

RobC

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-1,293,591

What's In a Name: The Story of Giclée
One thing that became quickly apparent to the early digital pioneers was the lack of a proper name to describe the prints they were making. By the close of the 1980s, IRIS printers were installed all over the world and spinning off full-color proofs in commercial printing plants and pre-press shops. These prints were used to check color and get client approvals before starting the main print run. They definitely were not meant to last or to be displayed on anyone's walls. Most people called them "IRIS prints," or "IRIS proofs," or, more simply, "IRISes."

However, this wasn't good enough for the new digital printmakers like Maryann Doe of Harvest Productions and Jack Duganne, who was the first printmaker (after David Coons) at Nash Editions. They wanted to draw a distinction between the beautiful prints they were laboring over and the utilitarian proofs the commercial printers were cranking out. Just like artist Robert Rauschenberg did when he came up with the term "combines" for his new assemblage art, they needed a new label, or, in marketing terms, a "brand identity." The makers of digital art needed a word of their own.

And, in 1991, they got it. Duganne had to come up with a print-medium description for a mailer announcing California artist Diane Bartz' upcoming show. He wanted to stay away from words like "computer" or "digital" because of the negative connotations the art world attached to the new medium. Taking a cue from the French word for inkjet (jet d'encre), Duganne opened his pocket Larousse and searched for a word that was generic enough to cover most inkjet technologies at the time and hopefully into the future. He focused on the nozzle, which most printers used. In French, that was le gicleur. What inkjet nozzles do is spray ink, so looking up French verbs for "to spray," he found gicler, which literally means "to squirt, spurt, or spray." The feminine noun version of the verb is (la) giclée, (pronounced "zhee-clay") or "that which is sprayed or squirted." An industry moniker was born.

However, the controversy started immediately. Graham Nash and Mac Holbert had come up with "digigraph," which was close to "serigraph" and "photograph." The photographers liked that. But, the artists and printmakers doing reproductions had adopted "giclée," and the term soon became a synonym for "an art print made on an IRIS inkjet printer."

Today, "giclée" has become established with traditional media artists, and some photographers. But many photographers and other digital artists have not accepted it, using, instead, labels such as "original digital prints," "inkjet prints," "pigment prints," or "(substitute the name of your print process) prints."

For many artists, the debate over "giclée" continues. Some object to its suggestive, French slang meaning ("spurt"). Others believe it is still too closely linked to the IRIS printer or to the reproduction market. And some feel that it is just too pretentious. But, for many, the term "giclée" has become part of the printmaking landscape; a generic word, like Kleenex, that has evolved into a broader term that describes any high-quality, digitally produced, fine-art print.

One problem, of course, is that when a term becomes too broad, it loses its ability to describe a specific thing. At that point, it stops being a good marketing label and make no mistake about it, "giclée" is a marketing term. When everything is a giclée, the art world gets confused, and the process starts all over again with people coming up with new labels.

This is exactly what happened when a new group formed in 2001--the Giclée Printers Association (GPA)--and came up with its own standards and its own term: "Tru Giclée." The GPA is concerned with reproduction printing only, and its printmaker members must meet nine standards or principles in order for them (and their customers) to display the Tru Giclée logo.

In 2003, recognizing that only a small number of printmakers could meet the requirements of Tru Giclée, the GPA instituted a lower-threshold standard, "Tru Décor," which applies to the much larger decor-art market.

Others have also jumped on the giclée bandwagon with such variations as Platinum Giclée (Jonathan Penney's term for his black-and-white printmaking process), Canvas Photo Giclée (a California photo printmaking shop), and Heritage Giclée (Staples Fine Art's trademarked term for their brand of giclée printmaking).


giclée (zhee-clay) n. 1. a type of digital fine-art print. 2. Most often associated with reproductions; a giclée is a multiple print or exact copy of an original work of art that was created by conventional means (painting, drawing, etc.) and then reproduced digitally, typically via inkjet printing. First use in this context by Jack Duganne in 1991, Los Angeles, California.
The point is that it was invented as a marketing term and the word describes what the nozzle of the printer does, spray ink, i.e. an inkjet print. The other alternatives described above are all marketing terms as well. It makes me think people are ashamed of calling their prints waht they are which is inkjet prints. Every Gicleee print ever made has been made on an inkjet printer of some kind. What's wrong with the term inkjet? Whats wrong with the term black and white silver gelatin landscape print . What makes it "Fine Art" compared to an equally good print not described as "Fine Art". Art like beauty is in the eye of the beholder. If you need to tell the beholder then your print is lacking in something.
 

Sirius Glass

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Well is the dog a work of art? Is the composition something special? How was it printed? Matted? Framed?
 
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