What is E6 film good for?

guangong · May 22, 2020

I shot lots of Kodachrome 35mm and, for the brief time available, Kodachrome 120. With disappearance of Kodachrome, and after trying out available E6 films, I settled on Provia. While I still shoot some 35mm, lately been shooting more 66 and 67. While electronic imaging is convenient, nothing is as striking as a projected image on a big screen, whether color or BW. Right now using Fuji GF670 and Makina67.
I haven’t done much scanning for prints, but after reading some of the contributors to this thread I will give it a try in the near future.

Alan Edward Klein · May 22, 2020

Grim Tuesday said:
One thing I like about slide film is that unlike negative film that must be inverted and interpreted with curves (and in the case of color neg, several curves for each channel) the slide is just there. Also, in the case of the specific slide film of velvia 50, I get some really lovely brilliant purple tones I have a hard time getting with other films. This accurately reflects my memory of the moment, and the scan accurately reflects (or should I say transmits) the slide. For example: https://www.flickr.com/photos/132764966@N03/49068208736/in/dateposted-public/

Nice shot. Yosemite is magical.

warden · May 22, 2020

For me E6 is just more fun, and that's what it's best at providing. Holding colorful slides up to the sky is a pleasure even if the images are banal. They're little stained glass windows.

Ariston · May 22, 2020

Man, you guys are making me regret not picking up a slide projector I saw at a thrift store.

I've never seen a medium format projector. Do they adjust for different formats?

MattKing · May 22, 2020

Ariston said:
Man, you guys are making me regret not picking up a slide projector I saw at a thrift store.

I've never seen a medium format projector. Do they adjust for different formats?

6x6 capable projectors work fine with 6x4.5 slides - the exterior dimensions of the mounts (7x7) are the same, while the opening window differs.
Larger sizes are more of a problem because 6x7 projectors are relatively rare and expensive.
There are 4x5 and larger projectors that originally were used in lecture halls - fun but rare and relatively impractical.
Overhead projectors can be effectively re-purposed for larger transparencies, although the quality is a bit iffy.

MattKing · May 22, 2020

AgX said:
Another approach would be using a inter-negative. But as with direct-printing the apt materials long ago had been cancelled.

Drew Wiley has posted that he has had success creating inter-negatives using Portra 160 (IIRC) but I expect that special Drew-like techniques would be required to minimize the build-up of contrast.

guangong · May 22, 2020

MattKing said:
6x6 capable projectors work fine with 6x4.5 slides - the exterior dimensions of the mounts (7x7) are the same, while the opening window differs.
Larger sizes are more of a problem because 6x7 projectors are relatively rare and expensive.
There are 4x5 and larger projectors that originally were used in lecture halls - fun but rare and relatively impractical.
Overhead projectors can be effectively re-purposed for larger transparencies, although the quality is a bit iffy.

My Linhof 67 projector cost $100 only a few years ago. Actually made by leitz. As far as I can tell except for finish, only difference is external finish and slide carrier. Of course these are complicated manual, which I prefer because only part to wear out is me

MattKing · May 22, 2020

guangong said:
My Linhof 67 projector cost $100 only a few years ago.

And you are fortunate to have found it, particularly at that price.

iakustov · May 25, 2020

As many said here, projection of MF slides is stunning. For this experience I invested in PCP80 projector and 6x6 backs for my RZ67.

etn · May 25, 2020

guangong said:
[...] nothing is as striking as a projected image on a big screen, whether color or BW.

May I ask which film / process you use for BW?
I am only aware of the ADOX Scala (160 and 50 ISO, but only in 35mm...) http://www.adox.de/Photo/adox-scala/
Is there anything else?

guangong · May 25, 2020

etn said:
May I ask which film / process you use for BW?
I am only aware of the ADOX Scala (160 and 50 ISO, but only in 35mm...) http://www.adox.de/Photo/adox-scala/
Is there anything else?

I use the same process as I use for processing 16mm and Super8: D19 is developer I use. Discontinued by Kodak, but easy to make.
Any BW film can be processed as a slide. The problem with almost all 35mm consumer film is that the film base is not transparent and can dull projection. The only contemporary film with transparent base was Foma R, which I was experimenting with until it became unavailable. Although now once again available, right now I’m busy with other projects.
If you wast to try out BW reversal, I would begin with Foma R film. For what it’s worth, I use traditional process that employs sulfuric acid and dichromate formula and find it most dependable.
As for 120, I use Provia.

etn · May 25, 2020

guangong said:
I use the same process as I use for processing 16mm and Super8: D19 is developer I use.

Thanks for this very detailes answer! Will look into it. Being a (color) slide junkie (mainly Velvia) I am curious about BW slides. I just finished my first roll of Scala 160 and am about to send it for processing.
However there is so much of a difference between 35mm and 120 that I would prefer to do 120 slides.

GarageBoy · May 27, 2020

They look amazing on a light box, no projector necessary - buy a loupe and go to town

Get good at not over exposing

removed account4 · May 27, 2020

Chris
Sometimes slide film is nice to look at and say ooo look at that ! ( some slide films are super saturated and vibrant other “ realistic “ whatever that means ). I don’t send slide film out anymore but develop it in black/white developer to make it black and white negatives the grain isn’t grain ...

Wallendo · May 27, 2020

I don't shoot a lot of slides as I should, but did recently spend most of an afternoon repairing a Carousel projector. I still shoot some E-6 film. I find color balance for scanning easier with E-6 film as I can simply look at the slide and adjust the monitor color to match. With C-41, it is easy to "normalize" the image so that colors look like they would in normal daylight, but it is hard to color correct images made in the early morning or early evening. With sunrises and sunsets, it seems like I am creating my own new scene, not reflecting what was caught on film. For that reason, I don't shoot much C-41. For color, I shoot E-6 or digital.

Alan Edward Klein · May 27, 2020

I'm new to large format and have been practicing with Tmax 100 and 400. But I also have 20 sheets of 4x5 Velvia 50 cooling its emulsion in my freezer that I bought directly from Japan. They don't sell it in 4x5 in America. I've shot a lot of Velvia 50 in medium format 120 and love it. So it's really going to be interesting to see in in large format.4x5 and to scan it with my Epson V850.

Helge · Jun 4, 2020

Projected slide is the proof of the unquestionable superiority of film as an image medium.
Even half frame projected slide has more contrast, far better colours, incredible pleasant resolution than anything digital, and image stability that reminds you of the first time you saw an e-reader.

Basically you are probably never going to wet print as large as you’d project. And the slide is also a first generation copy.

So while not as convenient as print. Slide represents in many ways the ultimate film output technology.
Remember, the basic slide before exposure has all of the latitude of normal film. It’s only in the standardized E6 development that things are frozen. That’s why DR and latitude is less with slide.
It’s basically equivalent to a finished print, which has even less dynamic range.
Same as when you print, you need to manipulate and compress the range, in this case in-camera.
Gradated ND filters and polarizers are excellent tools in that regard.
Preflashing the slide is also a possibility to bring global contrast down.

Medium format slide is out of this world good.
It’s real frozen VR.

Speaking of VR, does a goggle slide viewer exist that acts as a giant projection screen?
There are viewers of course, but they all have in common that the slide is displayed quite small.

Alan Edward Klein · Jun 4, 2020

Helge said:
Projected slide is the proof of the unquestionable superiority of film as an image medium.
Even half frame projected slide has more contrast, far better colours, incredible pleasant resolution than anything digital, and image stability that reminds you of the first time you saw an e-reader.

Basically you are probably never going to wet print as large as you’d project. And the slide is also a first generation copy.

So while not as convenient as print. Slide represents in many ways the ultimate film output technology.
Remember, the basic slide before exposure has all of the latitude of normal film. It’s only in the standardized E6 development that things are frozen. That’s why DR and latitude is less with slide.
It’s basically equivalent to a finished print, which has even less dynamic range.
Same as when you print, you need to manipulate and compress the range, in this case in-camera.
Gradated ND filters and polarizers are excellent tools in that regard.
Preflashing the slide is also a possibility to bring global contrast down.

Medium format slide is out of this world good.
It’s real frozen VR.

Speaking of VR, does a goggle slide viewer exist that acts as a giant projection screen?
There are viewers of course, but they all have in common that the slide is displayed quite small.

I display digitized scanned film photos on my 75" 4K UHD TV. I no longer have a slide projector as it broke. But I believe from memory, TV slide shows are better than anything I displayed with my slide project (35mm). Contrast and colors are superb. It's certainly is more convenient and you can add video clips, titles, credits, narration, and music as part of the show. Of course, my wife yells at me when I suggest showing some of them to unsuspecting guests. But that was the same with projected slide shows decades ago as well.

Helge · Jun 5, 2020

Alan Edward Klein said:
I display digitized scanned film photos on my 75" 4K UHD TV. I no longer have a slide projector as it broke. But I believe from memory, TV slide shows are better than anything I displayed with my slide project (35mm). Contrast and colors are superb. It's certainly is more convenient and you can add video clips, titles, credits, narration, and music as part of the show. Of course, my wife yells at me when I suggest showing some of them to unsuspecting guests. But that was the same with projected slide shows decades ago as well.

Of course as with any kind of projection contrast is a question of how dark you can make the room.

Real contrast/dmax of a well shot quality slide is incredibly high.

Much depends on the quality and power of the projector and the size you project to, too of course.

Resolution, colour resolution and image stability is somewhat independent of global contrast tough.

A backlit slide in a goggle display device or on a light table will display all the contrast inherent in the medium too, without the dependence on room light.

Alan Edward Klein · Jun 5, 2020

Helge said:
Of course as with any kind of projection contrast is a question of how dark you can make the room.

Real contrast/dmax of a well shot quality slide is incredibly high.

Much depends on the quality and power of the projector and the size you project to, too of course.

Resolution, colour resolution and image stability is somewhat independent of global contrast tough.

A backlit slide in a goggle display device or on a light table will display all the contrast inherent in the medium too, without the dependence in room light.

With modern TV's, you can adjust the contrast, saturation, color, darker blacks, etc. to meet the conditions of the space, time of day or night, ambient lighting, etc. You really can't do that with a slide projector. Also, a TV emits light so the contrast is much greater and brighter than a slide projector that reflects light even if you've been able to secure a good screen. Displaying on a white wall just dulls it more. Also, with digitally projected slides, you can remove scratches and dust permanently so you have a cleaner look with TV, if that's what you like. I'm not opposed to slide projection. It has its own qualities and tradition. But I learned that there are many advantages to scanning slides and projecting them digitally that makes this method superior in many ways. But this shouldn't devolve into a digital vs film debate.

Helge · Jun 5, 2020

As a matter of fact I have tried a 250W projector next to a good OLED screen in a dark room at similar screen size.
The projector blew the screen clean out of the water.
If you want to view non printed images, and learn to adjust your slides in-camera, with choice of film, filters and correct metering. Then slide will give you an end display experience that is not and probably will never in our lifetime, be equaled by any other display technology.

Negative film has much better dynamics that can be compressed into a print to your hearts desire, and better resolution too.
But you’d have to make one hell of a print to equal a projected first gen. slide.

Alan Edward Klein · Jun 5, 2020

Helge said:
As a matter of fact I have tried a 250W projector next to a good OLED screen in a dark room at similar screen size.
The projector blew the screen clean out of the water.
If you want to view non printed images, and learn to adjust your slides in-camera, with choice of film, filters and correct metering. Then slide will give you an end display experience that is not and probably will never in our lifetime, be equaled by any other display technology.

Negative film has much better dynamics that can be compressed into a print to your hearts desire, and better resolution too.
But you’d have to make one hell of a print to equal a projected first gen. slide.

What kind of a screen were you using? How big was the projected image?

Helge · Jun 5, 2020

Alan Edward Klein said:
What kind of a screen were you using? How big was the projected image?

It was a Sony OLED from last year. The model name escapes me.

Alan Edward Klein · Jun 5, 2020

How big were the screens you compared? TV and projector?

Helge · Jun 5, 2020

55 Sony. The projector was set to the same size of projection.
We thought I’d be fun to compare since I had brought the projector over anyway.

What is E6 film good for?

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