What is consider a photograph?

[cowanw]

Of course it is a photograph. A print is a properly defined photograph of a negative.

 

[Vaughn]

Yes, she should, since Grandma actually created the "image". Processing the film and printing it doesn't make you the photographer (or whatever "-ographer" applies here).

Every subject creates their own portrait by refecting light off their bodies towards the camera.

But taking a concept and carrying it out successfully makes one an artist.

Edited to add: Thanks, Eddie, for your comment (#25)

And I will say this and quickly duck -- a file of a scanned negative is made with light (that bright shiny thing in the scanner).

 

[removed account4]

I've often been told my photographs aren't really photographs, so I have empathy for the artist. I also find it an interesting image, ( I'd like to see it in person) most likely worthy of the prize. Personally, I'm a fan of people who push the envelope.

I think the insult to creativity is disparaging something because it doesn't fit your predetermined beliefs.

i am the same way .. i was told the same thing by galleries who were well established &c
i am not a "fan" of the people who call things what they might or might not be ..

good for her !

 

[tomfrh]

If people didnt do things like this we would be sentenced to an eternal purgatory of pictures of road signs and trees.

Next you'll be bagging out my series on tied up rowing boats...

 

[TheRook]

"There is no accounting for taste"

That's what many art critics said of the early abstract painters too.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

This is an analog image, but is it a photo.

https://petapixel.com/2017/07/27/photographer-wins-20000-prize-photo-scratches-spit/

I guess that jars of urine are no longer in vogue.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Although I do not care for it, it is still a photograph, by definition.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

This is an analog image, but is it a photo.

https://petapixel.com/2017/07/27/photographer-wins-20000-prize-photo-scratches-spit/

anything drawn by light.

 

[Jim Jones]

Poor timing. It's not the first of April.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

You have to review case like this within its content. The content of this case are photos entered for the contest ruled by the judge. My guess, the entered content on this contest was total dross. And judge was honest about this situation and told "you go girl!". At list she was original.

 

[Old-N-Feeble]

This is an analog image, but is it a photo.

https://petapixel.com/2017/07/27/photographer-wins-20000-prize-photo-scratches-spit/

There is/was a member of this forum who smudged his well-crafted portraits with spit, dirt, cigar ashes and scratches. The imagery is not what I prefer but he is/was good at adding 'ambiance' to his imagery using mechanical damage. However, there was/is no mistaking his work as anything other than photographic.

 

[Vaughn]

This competetion was just for Aussie photographers -- not a large crowd. My guess (as someone who has judged a 'themed' comp.), is that the judge(s) got real tired of entries that were no more than snapshots with someone standing in front of the camera, and decided to make a valid statement about the state of portrait work in Oz. The two 'runner-up' portraits are both non-traditional portraits that are not far from mainstream (family photo with members in fancy-dress) and someone in a hospital bed with his girlfriend(?).

 

[cliveh]

She won the prize for thinking outside the box. Good for her.

 

[Cholentpot]

I think the insult to creativity is disparaging something because it doesn't fit your predetermined beliefs.

No, I think the lack of effort is what throws people off. Lazy work and uninspired ideas will not resonate beyond the present.

I am disparaging based on a mockery of effort. Giving someone a piece of film to scribble on and calling it a brain wave is lemmingisim at it's finest. Sure it may be art but there is no was it is a timeless piece of fine art. I don't believe anyone will remember this 10 years from now, other than with a chuckle.

 

[Nodda Duma]

Lack of effort? Lazyness? Seriously...

I'm an engineer first and a photographer second. I have made a successful career in thinking outside the box and coming up with technical solutions that others haven't or couldn't. Creativity is the key... a combination of unique thinking, experience, and mental preparation by pondering all aspects of the problem at hand. This is *separate and distinct* from the actual effort involved in producing the solution...others do that while I go on to solving the next problem. Anybody can expend effort without being creative, and creativity does not often require significant effort. I get paid well for being creative, not for doing what thousands of other engineers could do.

Reading about the contest, it is clear they were looking for creativity and innovation, not the effort expended.

Good for her, and for the judges recognizing the creative process that went into her work.

 

[removed account4]

No, I think the lack of effort is what throws people off. Lazy work and uninspired ideas will not resonate beyond the present.

I am disparaging based on a mockery of effort. Giving someone a piece of film to scribble on and calling it a brain wave is lemmingisim at it's finest. Sure it may be art but there is no was it is a timeless piece of fine art. I don't believe anyone will remember this 10 years from now, other than with a chuckle.

hi cholenpot

sorry to sound snarky but do you know the amount of effort it was the photographer expended on making the winning photograph, and by the others who submitted to the contest?

 

[Vaughn]

For those who feel that it was not worth a $20,000 prize; that Oz dollars -- it is not quite $16,000 US.

 

[Craig75]

No, I think the lack of effort is what throws people off. Lazy work and uninspired ideas will not resonate beyond the present.

I am disparaging based on a mockery of effort. Giving someone a piece of film to scribble on and calling it a brain wave is lemmingisim at it's finest. Sure it may be art but there is no was it is a timeless piece of fine art. I don't believe anyone will remember this 10 years from now, other than with a chuckle.

Oh maybe your reaction is lemmingism ....

 

[eddie]

It's hard to quantify the amount of effort which goes into a creative endeavor, which is why most people don't try. Creativity is, for the most part, a product of thought, observation, mind-wandering, and even a bit of serendipity. How do you measure effort, in this regard?

 

[Cholentpot]

hi cholenpot

sorry to sound snarky but do you know the amount of effort it was the photographer expended on making the winning photograph, and by the others who submitted to the contest?

Having a person scribble on a paper during tea time and then turning it in as a portrait feels to me like playing the judges. If the judges want to make an artistic point they will go after the strangest thing. Art is in the eye of the beholder but the community is very insular and will accept things from one of their own that would be laughed at if a non insider would attempt.

It's a very haughty attitude that I've bumped into over time. I am not one of you so I can't play your game. It's high-school all over again.

Oh maybe your reaction is lemmingism ....

More Emperors New Clothes.

It's hard to quantify the amount of effort which goes into a creative endeavor, which is why most people don't try. Creativity is, for the most part, a product of thought, observation, mind-wandering, and even a bit of serendipity. How do you measure effort, in this regard?

Good question.

If I were too see the work without any explanation whatsoever would it move me in some way?

 

[ntenny]

If I were too see the work without any explanation whatsoever would it move me in some way?

I think this is a very fair question. To me, it's clear this particular image doesn't stand alone---you have to have the artist's statement to make any sense of it at all, even to understand why it's purported to be a portrait. That's not necessarily invalidating, but it's weird.

-NT

 

[MattKing]

If I were too see the work without any explanation whatsoever would it move me in some way?

That is an okay question, but it may be centred too much on your personal reaction. Fine if you are considering its purchase, but not really determinative of whether the work has value in general.
The other issue that it brings up is whether the work was always intended to be accompanied by the explanation. I don't see anything in the competition's rules that prohibit submission of the words plus the photograph together.

 

[eddie]

If I were too see the work without any explanation whatsoever would it move me in some way?

I doubt it, as you've already judged it to lack effort and an insult to creativity. There's still the problem that you equate effort ( Time? Degree of difficulty? Cost investment?) with creative results. By that standard, if you had an experienced printer and an inexperienced printer working with the same negative, and the more experienced one got a successful print in 3 sheets, while the other took 12, would the latter be more valid, as there was certainly more effort to get to the same place? I'm sorry, I just don't buy the idea that the product of creation is measurable.

 

[Cholentpot]

I think this is a very fair question. To me, it's clear this particular image doesn't stand alone---you have to have the artist's statement to make any sense of it at all, even to understand why it's purported to be a portrait. That's not necessarily invalidating, but it's weird.

-NT

Portrait to me is a visual art. It should stand on it's own merit as a visual message.

 

[Cholentpot]

I doubt it, as you've already judged it to lack effort and an insult to creativity. There's still the problem that you equate effort ( Time? Degree of difficulty? Cost investment?) with creative results. By that standard, if you had an experienced printer and an inexperienced printer working with the same negative, and the more experienced one got a successful print in 3 sheets, while the other took 12, would the latter be more valid, as there was certainly more effort to get to the same place? I'm sorry, I just don't buy the idea that the product of creation is measurable.

Innovative or creative effort stands side by side with time and difficulty. I fail to see the stand apart creativity in this work.