What is Art?

about to extinct

D
about to extinct

  • 1
  • 0
  • 67
Fantasyland!

D
Fantasyland!

  • 9
  • 2
  • 123
perfect cirkel

D
perfect cirkel

  • 2
  • 1
  • 125

Recent Classifieds

Forum statistics

Threads
198,748
Messages
2,780,346
Members
99,695
Latest member
cosinaphile
Recent bookmarks
0

goros

Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2006
Messages
279
Location
The Basque C
Format
Medium Format
I don’t know which forum would be the most adequate for this post, so it will be here.

In another thread (Presentation & Marketing > Fine Art Photography???) I expressed my concerns about the fact that somebody’s work will be considered art only if an influential critic says so. It came to my mind something I read in Mike Johnston’s The Online Photographer blog. It happened in Flickr: a HC-B picture was anonymously posted for approval. It didn’t past the test.

As a general comment, there were some people that realised who the author was, but the majority of “critics” don’t. OK, not everybody could have such a huge photographic culture as to see and remember all the famous pictures or to recognise the author of a picture just by the style. So many of the people who posted in that thread didn’t like the picture.

And that is the point. I always have thought that why should I like a “piece of art” just because a critic says I have to? Why should I accept the critic’s opinion? The critic could be a very educated person, with art degrees, experience or whatever but at the end of the day, if I don’t like it, I don’t like it and I may not consider it as art, although I can accept that it could have some craftsmanship merits (but sometimes, not even that).

Art, as well as society, is continuously evolving: what was crap yesterday, today it is beautiful and vice versa and anything would be considered, in a moment of History, as art. The Tate Gallery is having a yearly contest for new artist. There are several disciplines as paint, sculpture, etc. Some years ago, while the new Gallery wing was being built, an operator dumped his load of bricks on the grass and left for a new load. Meanwhile, the contest jury passed by the pile of bricks and, you guessed, it won that year sculpture first price. And like this one there are many examples. Is this art? Could we consider a natural beauty, let’s say the Grand Canyon or the Northern Light or a sunset, as art?

Eventually, the HC-B picture didn’t pass mainly for reasons as “it is not sharp from front to back”, “it is blurred”, “I would use a faster shutter speed”, “autofocus didn’t work” and so on.


Cheers
 

Muihlinn

Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2005
Messages
301
Location
Olías del Rey
Format
Multi Format
"Art is a mystery, even to the artist -- that's why so much crap is sold as art."

One of my favourite quotes about it. BTW, and as rule of thumb, art can be considered as a form of joy, as your knowlegde grows, more ways to understand or enjoy. On the other hand the statement "you don't have to like everything" will always remains true.

Market of art - with its preachers and prophets - is another matter.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Michel Hardy-Vallée

Membership Council
Subscriber
Joined
Apr 2, 2005
Messages
4,793
Location
Montréal, QC
Format
Multi Format
My favorite answer to the question: "The invention of Art" by Larry Shiner, U of Chicago Press. Available at any good university library.
 

catem

Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2006
Messages
1,358
Location
U.K.
Format
Multi Format
Eventually, the HC-B picture didn’t pass mainly for reasons as “it is not sharp from front to back”, “it is blurred”, “I would use a faster shutter speed”, “autofocus didn’t work” and so on.
Cheers
I saw that thread. Sorry, all it proved to me was the inexperience (and narrow mindedness) of the posters of those comments.
Cate
 

JBrunner

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Dec 14, 2005
Messages
7,429
Location
PNdub
Format
Medium Format
Yes, it simply shows the idiocy of the new self appointed,self absorbed, (and incessantly marketed to) guardians of our art and craft. (yes, they think what they do is) :smile:

More on topic-Why the constant desire to define art, or kinds of art? Is it because we wish to know we are making it? Do we wish to peshaw those who say they make art with a camera? Its kind of interesting, but in the end, how big is a rock?
 

Andy K

Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2004
Messages
9,420
Location
Sunny Southe
Format
Multi Format
Art is what you make it, or, to paraphrase Spike Milligan, 'Art is in the eye of the beholder, you can get it out with Optrex.'
 
OP
OP
goros

goros

Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2006
Messages
279
Location
The Basque C
Format
Medium Format
I saw that thread. Sorry, all it proved to me was the inexperience (and narrow mindedness) of the posters of those comments.
Cate

Yes, you are right, they were quite narrow minds. I don't think a picture has to be evaluated in terms of sharpness, focus, tonal range or whatever, if it transmits something to the viewer.

The thing is: Would they say the same if they knew the picture was from HC-B?

I also agree with Andy and JBrunner. For me art is what I think is art, not what others say. And we will probably disagree in our different concepts of art.

It looks like, in terms of art (and in terms of many other things, I don't want to add more salt in the wound) we must be like a herd of sheeps.

And that makes me twist inside.

Cheers
 

Ed Sukach

Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2002
Messages
4,517
Location
Ipswich, Mas
Format
Medium Format
Well ... again...,

The best deinition I've heard so far, and I'm wondering it it is a definition at all:

"The work on the wall (or wherever) is a encrypted window displaying the "being" of the artist on the other side".

Notes:

"Encrypted"
- It has to be. It is a defense and insulation from the random foreign bodies and "slings and arrows" of sociey - mainly. The artist exhibits more of her/ himself than does the nude model. You are looking at the insides of a human being.

"Being"
- Best choice of word I could think of. Self-so-ness, soul, psyche, SPIRIT ... all close - very close.

"The other side" - Well, yeah. I'm in here; the artist is not in here with me. Through the "work", though, closer than before.

It should be noted that many definitions assume that the work has reached some sort of value plateau... sort of, "It is not art unless it is GOOD enough to be art." Interesting. If we accept that limit, there is ONLY "good" art ... "bad" art simply does not exist.

I have given up struggling with "good" and "bad" and degrees in between.
It is ALL "art" ... and to me, the "worth" of any piece is determined by the emotional effect it induces in ME.
 

JBrunner

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Dec 14, 2005
Messages
7,429
Location
PNdub
Format
Medium Format
Art is that guy who used to play with Paul Simon.
 

bherg

Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2006
Messages
89
Location
sweden
Format
4x5 Format
In germany art is called kunst, in sweden konst, and in most europeans countries i think it is something the same. And kunst is from the german word kunen (to know)

So from the begining art is meant to be somthing that artist have great knowledge in.

great knowledge in photography, painting, building cars etc.

Everything if done right and with great knowledge is art. And not so much how things look. Thats my view on it anyways.


Cheers Johannes
 

Dan Fromm

Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2005
Messages
6,823
Format
Multi Format
Beats the living daylights out of me. Mr. Art Liem asserts that it is great to be Art, perhaps he can explain what he means by that.
 

Cooki

Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2006
Messages
58
Location
Winnipeg Can
Format
Sub 35mm
I think I shall follow Laurie Andersons dictum; " Art is a virus, some people get it, some people don't.":tongue:
 

Bob F.

Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2004
Messages
3,977
Location
London
Format
Multi Format
Art is gone. In a time when anything can be Art: a urinal basin on a pedestal; a light switch in an empty room; a cow sliced in half and pickled in formaldehyde; a bunch of bricks laid in a certain pattern... If anything can be art, then everything is art, and if everything is art then art has no unique meaning, and if art has no meaning then it does not exist. QED.

All that is left is a bunch of rich people shuffling stuff around between them at auction houses...

BTW, "Art" is much the same word in English, French, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese etc. "Art" however has a similar root meaning to "Kunst", coming from the Latin "Ars" meaning skill or craft.

Cheers, Bob.
 

Aggie

Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2003
Messages
4,914
Location
So. Utah
Format
Multi Format
Art is subjective and undefinable. It depends on your prespective and what you want it to be. For a Dr. the bodily functions and chemistry there in are an art form. For the farmer it is the artistic ability to produce viable products to consume. For the artist it is what ever they say it is. For the critic, it is what they personally think it is. For the rest of us, it is what is told to us. Who really knows exactly? And who really cares. If I make something that pleases me, then I"M happy. To hell with definitions by someone elses terms.
 

Daniel_OB

Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2006
Messages
420
Location
Mississauga,
Format
Multi Format
Goros
Karen Roeeder MFA (Master in Fine Art) from US asked similar question on internet (she asked on one forum how I know is one particular photograph art?). Beside MFA she is B. in Biology too, and she say she is top photographer also. Now came car-repairers, hear-dressers, pro-boxers, …, as camera owners, to quarrel around who will make “better” definition. Not to belittle anyone, but this is very similar as one ask question what is Law, and if he “figure it out” now he is a lawyer.
Art is a word before just anything. Many cultures does not have such word within their language, but still people there make artworks. Michelangelo or Durer was not that much concerned with meaning of that word as photographers are. They just did it, and other ask around what is it they did with a hope they will make the same (or similar).
If you want to know more about activities bonded around such word, the best advice is find a book “History of art”, from H. Janson, 5th edition or earlier (there is 6th and 7th edd. too).
Not to be bad in you eye, art is extraordinary work, work done by a guy named artist a guy who has a spider-net on his as*. Gear is work done by engineer. Fire is quenched by firefighter.
Find a way to measure quality of work done by hand, and you will find answer on you question.

www.Leica-R.com
 
Joined
Oct 20, 2004
Messages
1,093
Location
Fond du Lac, WI
Format
Multi Format
The meanings of a word are the uses to which people put it. As such, most words have multiple meanings, and these meanings can differ from person to person. Furthermore, there is no "correct" usage, at least according to my friend who writes dictionaries, as people can use words in any way they'd like. If enough native speakers use a word in a certain way, dictionaries will be updated to include that meaning.

In spite of these different meanings, there needs to be some common understanding, or communication wouldn't get very far. In any case, the meanings of words aren't clearly defined or set in stone. As Wittgenstein would have said, they don't have definitions but rather family relations of definitions, some of which have no direct connection to each other. So 'art' can mean 'deep understanding' (the classical Greek definition), or a knack, or an object made purely for aesthetic enjoyment, or ... It's meanings are legion.

My advice is to stop worring about it, do what you like, and let the salespeople worry about categorization.
 

Ed Sukach

Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2002
Messages
4,517
Location
Ipswich, Mas
Format
Medium Format
My advice is to stop worrying about it, do what you like, and let the salespeople worry about categorization.
Sounds good to me.

As far as I can tell ... "Art" as I know it - or don't know it - is undefinable.

I remember long discussions over the exact composition of light - "particle" or "wave"; electricity; hah! "gravity - all more of less concrete and nowhere as "vaporous" as life, love, aesthetics - joy, ... or any number of human emotions.

Possiblly, wrestling with "electricity" is an exercise providing a useful guide: no one KNOWS what the hell it is; most will concede that is DOES exist; we can use it by predicting its effect ... I don't know what it is, but if I flip this little lever on the wall, something else that I cannot define - light - will happen.

So - back to "art". Whatever it is, I enjoy doing it more than not doing it. Occcasionally I'll discover someone - I describe them as "Kindred Souls" who experience the works - whatever they are - with the same emotional effect as I have.

I'll still wonder about "what it is" - but I would much rather "do" than let that wonder hold me back.

- And - how do I "spell check" these messages?
 
Photrio.com contains affiliate links to products. We may receive a commission for purchases made through these links.
To read our full affiliate disclosure statement please click Here.

PHOTRIO PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Ilford ADOX Freestyle Photographic Stearman Press Weldon Color Lab Blue Moon Camera & Machine
Top Bottom