What is a good budget wide angle lens?

Bob S · Jul 16, 2020

David Reynolds said:
Bob
Never used any filters on the lens except for a polarizer once and awhile. I am not familiar with a center filter. Tell me more. Thanks

A center filter helps to correct the fall off of WA lenses.
As for the polarizer. The sky is naturally polarized in some areas. If you use a wide angle lens when large areas of sky will be in the shot then you may get banding in the sky with a polarizer.

David Reynolds · Jul 16, 2020

Bob S said:
A center filter helps to correct the fall off of WA lenses.
As for the polarizer. The sky is naturally polarized in some areas. If you use a wide angle lens when large areas of sky will be in the shot then you may get banding in the sky with a polarizer.

I only used a polarizer when shooting glossy paintings indoors with tungsten lighting to combat glare.

Bob S · Jul 16, 2020

David Reynolds said:
I only used a polarizer when shooting glossy paintings indoors with tungsten lighting to combat glare.

With the lights also polarized?

David Reynolds · Jul 16, 2020

Bob S said:
With the lights also polarized?

No polarizer on the lighting - just the lens .

Bob S · Jul 16, 2020

David Reynolds said:
No polarizer on the lighting - just the lens .

It is much more effective with total polarization with the axis of the polarizer on the light and the lens all aligned on the same axis.

138S · Jul 17, 2020

David Reynolds said:
I only used a polarizer when shooting glossy paintings indoors with tungsten lighting to combat glare.

Bob S said:
It is much more effective with total polarization with the axis of the polarizer on the light and the lens all aligned on the same axis.

If illumination is not polarized the polarizer filter do absolutely nothing.

The illumination and the filters polarizarion have to be shifted 90º and this totally avoid glares.

I buy polarizer sheets for the illumination here since 17 years ago: https://3dlens.com/linear-polarizer-film.php

Those are linear polarizer sheets requiring also a linear filter, this is the most effective way but this can interfere with AF and metering systems. If having circular polarizarion filters for the lens then circular polarizer sheets can also be purchased: https://3dlens.com/circular-polarizer-film.php

I use that for industrial applications, for commercial/creative photography it's the same.

Cross polarization, min 6:40:

Bob S · Jul 17, 2020

You can mix linear and circular polarizers for copy lighting.
The plane of polarization of the polarizers on the lights and the camera have to all be in the same plane. Not rotated against one another.
To do this put a polarizer on one light, turn it on. Put a polarizer on the lens and rotate it till you get maximum polarization.
Turn that lamp off. Put polarizer on other lamp, turn it on and rotate that polarizer while someone looks at the gg until they see maximum polarization. Turn other lamp on, you now have all of them aligned. Take a marker and make index marks on the filters so you can set them up much quicker for other jobs.
If your lights give off heat then you need to space their polarizers so they are not effected by the heat. Otherwise they will disform.

138S · Jul 17, 2020

Bob S said:
Turn that lamp off. Put polarizer on other lamp, turn it on and rotate that polarizer while...

+1

I do exactly that, polarizers in the two illuminators have to be aligned, and the right way to do it is just the one you describe, if not doing that then optimal results are difficult to obtain...

fdonadio · Aug 12, 2020

I am a little impressed that no one mentioned Tokyo-Kogaku’s Super Topcor 90mm 5.6 as a budget 4x5 wide angle. I see some of them for around 100 bucks on the big bay site...

Dan Fromm · Aug 13, 2020

fdonadio said:
I am a little impressed that no one mentioned Tokyo-Kogaku’s Super Topcor 90mm 5.6 as a budget 4x5 wide angle. I see some of them for around 100 bucks on the big bay site...

It is really for 6x9, claimed coverage at f/22 is 150 mm. In addition, they were delivered mounted on 80 mm x 80 mm boards for 6x9 Horseman cameras. No problem, except that they are in Seiko shutters without cable release sockets -- there's a device on the board that accepts a cable release -- and PC sockets -- the sync contacts are wired to a PC terminal on the board. So using one of those lenses on any other camera with full functionality requires a new shutter.

138S · Aug 13, 2020

fdonadio said:
I am a little impressed that no one mentioned Tokyo-Kogaku’s Super Topcor 90mm 5.6 as a budget 4x5 wide angle. I see some of them for around 100 bucks on the big bay site...

Of course the topcor can be used, but it was not a popular choice, reportedly they don't have much quality in the 4x5" corners (which is of relative importance) and I guess they are not multi-coated (which is also of relative importance).

Anyway fujinons sw 90 can be found right for $125 to $150 (also supose single coated version) so there is a little motivation to go to this Topcor.

A good choice would be a multicoated Fujinon 90mm SWD 5.6 covering 236mm for $250-$300 or the Nikon SW for $350.

Personally I would consider the single coated fujinon as the good budget choice, but I would not save additional $50 to get the topcor.

I've a 90 SWD that has a 4mm hit in the rear element just in the periphery, I don't understant how somebody could make that damage (perhaps it was disassemble to be cleaned)... but I paid $80 and nothing is noticed in the image.

abruzzi · Aug 14, 2020

Dan Fromm said:
It is really for 6x9, claimed coverage at f/22 is 150 mm. In addition, they were delivered mounted on 80 mm x 80 mm boards for 6x9 Horseman cameras. No problem, except that they are in Seiko shutters without cable release sockets -- there's a device on the board that accepts a cable release -- and PC sockets -- the sync contacts are wired to a PC terminal on the board. So using one of those lenses on any other camera with full functionality requires a new shutter.

There is a Topcor 90mm f5.6 that is intended for 4x5 use and isn't the little tiny 2x3 version, but they are much less common, and not quite as cheap. I don't know if they are labeled differently. A sold listing:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Exc-Horsem...=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Compared to the little 2x3 lens:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEAR-MINT-...176110?hash=item3667f271ee:g:b~AAAOSwiYJfBGZf

fdonadio · Aug 14, 2020

Thanks @abruzzi, @138S and @Dan Fromm for the information. I was about to buy one of these Super Topcor for a 6x12 camera I want to make, but I’ll consider one of the other options mentioned in this thread.

Right now there’s a handful of Optars, Angulons and even a B&L 88mm for sale well under 100 bucks on the bay.

Just waiting for a fellow forum user to answer a PM before I try one of them.

Dan Fromm · Aug 14, 2020

Flavio, I mistakenly thought that you wanted to use the 90/5.6 Super Topcor ER on 4x5. It should be fine, questions of practicality aside, on 6x12. It has more-or-less as much coverage as the 105 mm and shorter lenses I considered getting when I went 6x12. Since you're building your camera, you should be able to make it to accept lenses on 80x80 Horseman boards. That would solve the practicality issues I raised.

The 90/6,8 Optar and 88/6.8 B&L are very similar. They and 90/6.8 Angulons have much the same coverage. If I were looking for a 90 to use on 6x12 -- I'm not you, our needs and situations are different -- I'd avoid all three. FWIW. I have two 90 mm lenses that will do for 6x12. 90/6.8 Boyer Beryl (= Dagor) and 90/14 Perigraphe VIa. The Beryl is uncommon, the 90/14 is probably the most common Perigraphe VIb. Can't recommend either to you because of cost considerations, and didn't get either for my move to 6x12.

fdonadio · Aug 14, 2020

Dan Fromm said:
The 90/6,8 Optar and 88/6.8 B&L are very similar. They and 90/6.8 Angulons have much the same coverage. If I were looking for a 90 to use on 6x12 -- I'm not you, our needs and situations are different -- I'd avoid all three.

My only requirements are that the lens is sharp enough, light and compact. I’m using a Holga 120 WPC (pinhole), for which I’ll make a 3D printed cone. The lens will be mounted in a helicoid, which will be mounted to the cone. Looks pretty simple...

grat · Aug 15, 2020

I picked up a 105mm f/4.5 Tominon lens from a Polaroid MP4-- even though it's designed as a copy stand, the lens seems to work fine for 4x5. Haven't taken any pictures with it, since I'm still building the camera (Stop me if this sounds familiar-- a 6x12 3D printed body, with a cone on the front, and this lens mounted on the cone.....).

It's also in a copal press shutter, so self-cocking, and came with a short shutter release cable, all for < $100.

I may decide it's a terrible lens, but it's good enough to get the camera working.

Bob S · Aug 15, 2020

Seems that the Tomlnon covered the Polaroid film at close up distances. If that is so it won’t cover 45 or 612 at infinity or near infinity. And, if you make a cone for that 10t it would be too long for a 90mm.
Save your money and buy a proper lens and cone.

fdonadio · Aug 15, 2020

grat said:
(Stop me if this sounds familiar-- a 6x12 3D printed body, with a cone on the front, and this lens mounted on the cone.....).

I believe @dirkfletcher would go for a similar design...

grat · Aug 15, 2020

Bob S said:
Seems that the Tomlnon covered the Polaroid film at close up distances. If that is so it won’t cover 45 or 612 at infinity or near infinity. And, if you make a cone for that 10t it would be too long for a 90mm.
Save your money and buy a proper lens and cone.

So far, seems to be focusing correctly, and covering 4x5 in my tests. *shrug*

As for the cones, printing one takes a few hours and a few dollars worth of plastics, so it's not a big deal.

dirkfletcher · Aug 21, 2020

fdonadio said:
I believe @dirkfletcher would go for a similar design...

I would and I have! With affordable helical and a 3D printer why wouldn't you try? Worst case is its a complete train wreck and you are out some time and 25 bucks for a helical or best case is you end up with a cool little camera that works just fine. There has never been a better time to be a camera builder, I say build away and share your process as well as finished pics, we'd love to see what you come up with!
Dirk

Donald Qualls · Aug 22, 2020

Bob S said:
Seems that the Tomlnon covered the Polaroid film at close up distances. If that is so it won’t cover 45 or 612 at infinity or near infinity. And, if you make a cone for that 10t it would be too long for a 90mm.
Save your money and buy a proper lens and cone.

I can't speak to a Tominon, but a common triplet at 105mm, stopped down to f/11 or smaller and focused to 12 feet (hyperfocal) just covers 4x5. I know, because I've done it. Scan of test negative is posted up this thread a ways.

grat · Aug 22, 2020

dirkfletcher said:
I would and I have! With affordable helical and a 3D printer why wouldn't you try? Worst case is its a complete train wreck and you are out some time and 25 bucks for a helical or best case is you end up with a cool little camera that works just fine. There has never been a better time to be a camera builder, I say build away and share your process as well as finished pics, we'd love to see what you come up with!
Dirk

I can't claim it's my design. It's the "Kraken" from http://frozenphoton.com/kraken

Currently printing the lens cone-- after testing on my 4x5, I'm using a 95mm cone. Due to the way the lens is mounted (the entire lens is on the front of the shutter), I had to reduce the draw on the bellows by 10mm to get it to focus compared with my normal 105mm lens (which does, just barely, cover 4x5).

The body's going to take awhile-- I'm using PETG and a somewhat slow printer.

Ariston · Aug 22, 2020

fdonadio said:
Thanks @abruzzi, @138S and @Dan Fromm for the information. I was about to buy one of these Super Topcor for a 6x12 camera I want to make, but I’ll consider one of the other options mentioned in this thread.

Right now there’s a handful of Optars, Angulons and even a B&L 88mm for sale well under 100 bucks on the bay.

Just waiting for a fellow forum user to answer a PM before I try one of them.

fdonadio - from your post, I see a Bausch & Lomb 88mm lens on ebay I am thinking about grabbing, but I didn't want to buy it out from under you. Have you decided?

dirkfletcher · Aug 22, 2020

I used the back end of the super cool WillTravel 3D printed camera and instead of his helical, I added a flange that let a 65mm f/8 Super Angulon in an eBay helical mount to. This allows the lens and helical to be quickly unscrewed spun onto my custom 6x12 camera. I also changed up the back end a bit and not really wanting a ground glass 100% of the time I used angled aluminum with spring clips for a quick and solid film back.

some pictures of the finished camera are here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/dirkfletcher/albums/72157714457785873

And some notes about its construction on my blog here:
http://dirkfletcher.blogspot.com/2020/05/lightweight-4x5-that-shares-lens-with.html

Dan Fromm · Aug 22, 2020

Interesting discussion and ideas. FWIW, I'm more of a cheapskate than most -- Mr. Qualls might beat me, but not by much -- and I wouldn't use a 105/4.5 Tominon for anything or any 100 mm +/- triplet or tessar type on 6x12, let alone 4x5.

This goes to prove that there's a lot of disagreement about what "covers" means in practice or, perhaps, that we don't all agree on how good is good enough.

What is a good budget wide angle lens?

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