What is a good budget wide angle lens?

Donald Qualls · Jun 19, 2020

Okay, here's the scan I promised earlier.

4x5 Speed Graphic, Agnar 105mm f/6.3, .EDU (Forte) 400, Parodinal 1:50

Detail of the white crew-cab Chevy pickup:

Alan Gales · Jun 20, 2020

Ilex 90mm f/8 Acugons go for cheap and are good lenses. Of course they are f/8 and not f/5.6.

EdSawyer · Jun 22, 2020

The Nikkor 90/8 should be even *more* $ than the 4.5, based on quality of results. It's simply better. Generally with some effort you can find them in the $300-ish price range, which is a steal, IMNSHO.

Bill Burk · Jun 22, 2020

Dan Fromm said:
$$$ and no shutter.

So did I waste my money? At f/32 you don’t really need a shutter

Dan Fromm · Jun 22, 2020

Bill Burk said:
So did I waste my money? At f/32 you don’t really need a shutter

Since you asked, yes indeed you just threw it away. And not pennies either unless you made a really lucky snag or exploited a grieving widow.

More seriously, our friend Sunny16 implies that ISO 100 film and bright lighting f/32 wants 1/25. I shoot chromes out of doors and even at that low speed an improvised shutter is pretty risky. Shooting indoors and in the dark of night, improvised shutter, yeah, sure, why not?

Bill Burk · Jun 23, 2020

I’ve used it in deep canyons with a small creek running full. True the people were blurry. I can hit f/45 and a little more Maybe it’s f/64 for the daylight shot where I might try 1/10th second. I shoot TMY2 so that works against me. But I don’t care about giving too much exposure. I know the film has a straight line as far as the eye can see.

Donald Qualls · Jun 23, 2020

There's always the selection of front-mount shutters -- guillotines, roller blinds, etc. Roller blinds, especially, can get as fast as 1/100 without a problem.

nosmok · Jun 27, 2020

Another European barrel lens possibility besides the Perigraphe mentioned earlier is the 80mm f/6.3 Weitwinkel Aristostigmat from (Hugo?) Meyer in Gorlitz. It must have originally come off a 4x5 or so reflex camera, because it covers 4x5 very well. And boy, it's TINY. Got mine off evilBay, can't speak to how common it is.

Ed/Toronto · Jul 6, 2020

Ilex 90mm f/8.0 damn fine lens

Ariston · Jul 6, 2020

jimjm said:
Also keep an eye out for any Caltar-branded lenses. Many of them are actually re-badged Rodenstock or Schneider lenses, but are usually less expensive.
I have a 90mm f:8 that has good coverage for 4x5 and is a fine performer.

I see one of these with "front and rear elements only." I assume that means it needs to be mounted to a shutter. Is there anything I could mount this to and use it as a barrel lens? Are shutters all a standard depth?

Dan Fromm · Jul 6, 2020

Well, if you can do without a diaphragm, a tube as long as the shutter's tube and threaded like the shutter at each end will do for you. I once bought a 90/6.8 Boyer Beryl (Dagor type) in a straight tube that matched a Compur #00 shutter.

Or you can get a Copal or Compur or Prontor shutter of the right size, probably #0. All these #0 shutters have tubes to the same specifications.

If the cells are to fit a #00 shutter, don't get them. No #00 has press focus, few have a "T" setting. They have to be set to "B" and held open with a locking cable release. Not usually what one wants to live with.

If the lens is an Ilex and the cells are made to fit an Ilex shutter, don't get them. Ilex shutters don't conform to the Compur/Copal standard and the small Ilex shutter that some 90/8 Ilexes fit is hard to find.

As a rule, buying a lens in shutter will cost less than buying cells and shutter separately. There are indeed exceptions, and for all I know you have the shutter for the cells you're looking at. But don't forget that you'll have to make an aperture scale ...

Ariston · Jul 6, 2020

Thanks Dan. So helpful.

Nokton48 · Jul 6, 2020

I use the Sinar 90mm F8 chrome Super Angulon and it has always proven it's worth

Return Ludlow Falls 2 by Nokton48, on Flickr

138S · Jul 7, 2020

Ariston said:
Are shutters all a standard depth?

As mentioned by Dan all modern shutters are equivalent with same threads and same inter-cell spacing, single difference is that the shutter-board flange to cell-shutter flanges distance may vary by around 1mm, so one may hold the lens 1mm farther from film than the other, the obvious effect is that with some shutter you may have to give 1mm more or less bellows to focus the same.

With 4x5" short focals there are two usual strategies, having a 65mm and a 90mm, or replacing both by a 75mm. For some landscapes you may want to go wider than 90, but this is totally about taste, and starting with a 90mm is great.

I have the Fujinons 65 and 90 multicoated, old excellent glass. Older Fujinons were sold with Seiko shutters, newer have Copal. Seikos are very good, but good service was more difficult to obtain since time ago, also they are more complex.

IMO most critical factor is shutter, if your lens comes with a shutter that is in shape this would be nice, now we face a situation where most of the shuters are pretty old and many have not been serviced recently or never have been serviced. Having a (cheap) shutter tester is always a good idea.

Neil Poulsen · Jul 7, 2020

EdSawyer said:
90mm f/8 Nikkor - light, relatively cheap, best resolution and contrast of any of the 90mms for 4x5.

Also has coverage about the same as other-brand f5.6 versions. (i.e. 235mm image circle.) Super Angulon f8 lenses are reasonably priced.

I carry a 105mm Fuji SW as a nice transition lens between 90mm and 120mm. Given that both my Fuji lens and my 121mm Super Angulon are f8 lenses, it bothers me not that my 90mm Nikon SW is an f8 lens.

There's a Calumet Caltar SW 90mm, f8 lens that sells for less. But, it has no filter threads.

138S · Jul 7, 2020

Neil Poulsen said:
it bothers me not that my 90mm Nikon SW is an f8 lens.

Yeah, in general, those are crazy sharp, even in the 4x5" corners. (beyond the usual sample to sample variation)

Alan Edward Klein · Jul 7, 2020

Neil Poulsen said:
Also has coverage about the same as other-brand f5.6 versions. (i.e. 235mm image circle.) Super Angulon f8 lenses are reasonably priced.

I carry a 105mm Fuji SW as a nice transition lens between 90mm and 120mm. Given that both my Fuji lens and my 121mm Super Angulon are f8 lenses, it bothers me not that my 90mm Nikon SW is an f8 lens.

There's a Calumet Caltar SW 90mm, f8 lens that sells for less. But, it has no filter threads.

I have the Nikkor 90mm but in F/4.5. How does it compare with the Nikkor 90mm in f/8.?

Ian Grant · Jul 7, 2020

Donald Qualls said:
There's always the selection of front-mount shutters -- guillotines, roller blinds, etc. Roller blinds, especially, can get as fast as 1/100 without a problem.

You can get to 1/1000 with a front mounted roller blind shutter, Thornton Pickard sold them, essentially identical to a regular TP shutter but with a single narrow slit width, fine with a front mounting shutter as you just slip it off for focussing and back on to shoot. I have a Focal plane version of the TP roller blind shutter 1/100th to 1/1000 it needs the curtain replacing so I make convert it back to the slower version. I also have a half plate dual shutter TP Triple Imperial, so Focal Plane rear shutter for higher speeds and a between lens Roller blind shutter for slower speeds, these are screwed to the lens board and take removable front panels so you can use different lenses

I have a similar Protar to Bill's, very small and light which covers 10x8, it's a military marked Ross EWA but like Bill's has an f16 max aperture the CZJ versions were f18.

Ian

Ian Grant · Jul 7, 2020

There's plenty of 90mm lenses with good coverage at decent prices, I picked up a 90mm f5.6 Super Angulon for about £120 ($160), a black barrel pre-MC version in really excellent condition. I do use a 90mm f6.8 Angulon but the OP wants coverage and it needs care to stay within the image circle with front tilt (about the only movement I use with it).

If you keep looking and are patient the bargains are around.

Ian

138S · Jul 7, 2020

Alan Edward Klein said:
F/4.5. ... Nikkor 90mm in f/8.?

Very similar coverage (the f/8 has to stop more for the same), different speed, weight, filter size... IMO, if one is not to shot much under f/8 then the f/8 was a better choice.

IIRC, the 90mm f/8 is same design than the SW 120mm and 150mm (8/4), and the 90mm f/4.5 was made like the 65mm and the 75mm (7/4).

Ian Grant said:
90mm f6.8 Angulon but the OP wants coverage and it needs care to stay within the image circle with front tilt (about the only movement I use with it).

of course but you can compensate with a front fall or bed drop, or instead using a rear tilt...

Bill Burk said:
I can hit f/45 and a little more Maybe it’s f/64

Bill, if you want image quality (and if you don't need to stop more for DOF) then by stopping beyond f/16 you loss image quality as most 4x5 lenses are diffraction limited by f/22.

In particular at f/64 you have contrast extintion by 25 lp/mm, so 4x5 LF would not have an IQ advantage over MF.

A better choice would be using a good ND filter...

hsandler · Jul 10, 2020

I have the cheapo Optar WA 90mm f6.8. Cost me about $75 in a shutter. Images are sharp (to me) to the edges at f22-f32. Sometimes I find composing at f6.8 and stopping it down to f11 for focusing helps make it sharper to judge focus. There's really absolutely no room for movements at the full 4x5 frame, but I sometimes use front rise which vignettes the top corners and then clone in the vignetted sky. Here's an example. I can send you full size examples by pm if you want to pixel peep.

Canadian Museum of Nature by Howard Sandler, on Flickr

David Reynolds · Jul 16, 2020

I have used a 90mm f8 Super- Angulon for many years. However I found drop off at each corner of the 4X5's I was shooting because of the nature of the wide angle. Especially if I did not have a great deal of space in which to shoot. I found that using a 150mm G Clarion solved that problem as it created a flatter image with even light across the transparency.

Bob S · Jul 16, 2020

David Reynolds said:
I have used a 90mm f8 Super- Angulon for many years. However I found drop off at each corner of the 4X5's I was shooting because of the nature of the wide angle. Especially if I did not have a great deal of space in which to shoot. I found that using a 150mm G Clarion solved that problem as it created a flatter image with even light across the transparency.

Did you get the proper center filter for it?

David Reynolds · Jul 16, 2020

Bob
Never used any filters on the lens except for a polarizer once and awhile. I am not familiar with a center filter. Tell me more. Thanks

Dan Fromm · Jul 16, 2020

David Reynolds said:
Bob
Never used any filters on the lens except for a polarizer once and awhile. I am not familiar with a center filter. Tell me more. Thanks

To learn about center filters, read this: http://www.galerie-photo.com/center-filters-for-large-format-lenses.html

To the extent that there's a consensus, it is that 90 mm is the shortest focal length that's usable on 4x5 without a CF. Some photographers disagree with the consensus.

What is a good budget wide angle lens?

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