What has become of us all?

[gbroadbridge]

And when I tell em the old film joke about how back in the 70s and 80s we used to take photos of our dinner, pop them to the pharmacy for developing, then walk up and down the street knocking on doors to show the neighbours, they just don't get the joke

Of course most will know the story of Narcissus and Echo from Greek mythology.

It just needed technology to advance to the point to enable it for the masses.

 

[Chuck1]

And that's Pandora's box?

 

[Rayt]

I am retired now but since the 1990’s travelled for a living to many developing countries. It wasn’t 120 years ago but felt like it. Now the same places are electric clean with glass and steel, Gucci and Prada. The sheep herders are gone replaced by baristas. There’s a parking lot for tour buses. Don’t forget the selfie sticks ladies. Children in rags now in shiny school uniforms. I feel safe walking around 2am. Foreigners queue for an hour at immigration to get in. What’s not to like? These countries and their people have come a long way.

 

[gbroadbridge]

I am retired now but since the 1990’s travelled for a living to many developing countries. It wasn’t 120 years ago but felt like it. Now the same places are electric clean with glass and steel, Gucci and Prada. The sheep herders are gone replaced by baristas. There’s a parking lot for tour buses. Don’t forget the selfie sticks ladies. Children in rags now in shiny school uniforms. I feel safe walking around 2am. Foreigners queue for an hour at immigration to get in. What’s not to like? These countries and their people have come a long way.

No need to leave home.
The world is just one shade of beige

 

[fdonadio]

I have news for you, I've seen this behavior all over Europe as well. The lack of civility and respect seems to be a broad international thing.

By “state of affairs” I mean something else entirely, but it’s off-topic.

Sure, you would see the same situation in the Louvre around Mona Lisa, or in the great museums we have here in Berlin.

 

[fdonadio]

We have an entire generation or two that has become, to a significant extent (I don't tar them all with the same brush), self entitled and self obsessed. They want "content" as if it somehow validates their existence.

In my view, what's different is that several generations of people - who've increasingly learned to socialize by remote control and less through actual human contact - have never developed the awareness of social cues needed for public behavior. They are literally oblivious to people around them. We're just "in another tab".

This was what I meant with “atitude”.

Also, there’s the thing about how much time each one of these people spend to take the “necessary” number of selfies, so they “look good”, the work of art is in the right place, there’s no other phone blocking anything important… it’s not just a second or two. And then you multiply it by the number of people. Then you add the fact that most of these people are only concerned about themselves, so they will stumble on you, even push you if they feel like… just to prove in the damn social network that they were there. “Hey, look, I saw Mona Lisa!” Yeah, you and 8.86 million people this year (24.2 thousand people a day, on average). How unique are you, snowflake?

I, for one, seldom take pictures in museums. It makes no sense. I leave my camera in the bag, in the locker at the entrance. Sometimes I see an interesting situation, in a calmer place, where I can just get my phone and take the shot without getting in other people’s way.

But then it’s just me, my way of doing things and my opinion.

 

[fdonadio]

Now the same places are electric clean with glass and steel, Gucci and Prada. The sheep herders are gone replaced by baristas. There’s a parking lot for tour buses. Don’t forget the selfie sticks ladies.

In Brazil, we call it “gourmetization”. It all started with cooks and chefs creating sophisticated versions of Brazilian street food and attaching the “gourmet” label onto it. Then the term started being applied to everything.

 

[Tel]

I always take a sketchbook when I'm travelling. Cafes, airports, train stations and museums are great places to sketch people....

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

By “state of affairs” I mean something else entirely, but it’s off-topic.

Sure, you would see the same situation in the Louvre around Mona Lisa, or in the great museums we have here in Berlin.

Walla. Me and the missus and Mona. The line was too long to wait.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

This was what I meant with “atitude”.

Also, there’s the thing about how much time each one of these people spend to take the “necessary” number of selfies, so they “look good”, the work of art is in the right place, there’s no other phone blocking anything important… it’s not just a second or two. And then you multiply it by the number of people. Then you add the fact that most of these people are only concerned about themselves, so they will stumble on you, even push you if they feel like… just to prove in the damn social network that they were there. “Hey, look, I saw Mona Lisa!” Yeah, you and 8.86 million people this year (24.2 thousand people a day, on average). How unique are you, snowflake?

I, for one, seldom take pictures in museums. It makes no sense. I leave my camera in the bag, in the locker at the entrance. Sometimes I see an interesting situation, in a calmer place, where I can just get my phone and take the shot without getting in other people’s way.

But then it’s just me, my way of doing things and my opinion.

I think that;s you on the line.

 

[neuromantism]

Arguably the best time to go anywhere in the world is about 120 years ago.

A Djin appears and grants your wish; you get to travel in time 120 years back, but resurface as either:
~ a Sicilian peasant;
~ an Armenian highlander;
~ a Russian field worker;
~ an Algerian street vendor;
~ a Namibian hunter;
~ a Peruvian transport carrier;
~ a...

Time travel is indeed wonderful in the recorded memories, but the time lived (then and now) by many people in many wonderful looking places may have been ( or is) less so.
Yet somehow the grass always seems greener on the other side, and documentaries are not as popular as travel brochures or Instagram viral landscape pictures and videoclips/carousels/whatever the trash Instagram servers

 

[MartinCrabtree]

120 years isn't far enough.

 

[MattKing]

I prefer to live in a world where electricity and flush toilets are commonplace.
Good quality cameras and films as well.

 

[snusmumriken]

A Djin appears and grants your wish; you get to travel in time 120 years back, but resurface as either:
~ a Sicilian peasant;
~ an Armenian highlander;
~ a Russian field worker;
~ an Algerian street vendor;
~ a Namibian hunter;
~ a Peruvian transport carrier;
~ a...

Time travel is indeed wonderful in the recorded memories, but the time lived (then and now) by many people in many wonderful looking places may have been ( or is) less so.
Yet somehow the grass always seems greener on the other side, and documentaries are not as popular as travel brochures or Instagram viral landscape pictures and videoclips/carousels/whatever the trash Instagram servers

I was thinking of setting off from England, if that’s OK?

 

[chuckroast]

I prefer to live in a world where electricity and flush toilets are commonplace.
Good quality cameras and films as well.

Not to mention women dying in their 20s and men in their 30s.

The past isn't what it used to be...

 

[snusmumriken]

So between the era of earth closets and that of iPhone selfies, where - timewise - do you all want to be?

 

[gbroadbridge]

There's no better place than today, once the filtered past is removed.

 

[MattKing]

There's no better place than today, once the filtered past is removed.

Subject to reclaiming at least some of my youthful self .

 

[neuromantism]

I was thinking of setting off from England, if that’s OK?

Of course that one is going to yearn for that era of time only if one can reap off of colonialism. Yes, the Djin agrees to your request; you're reincarnated as a dark-shade skinned man, incorporated to display in one of English 'human zoos' functioning at the turn of the XXth century in Great Britain. You're looking at the cameras held by people coming to watch the displays in the zoo, taking pictures of you.

Human Zoos are a proof to show, that romanticizing the era of their functioning is either naive or obnoxiously elitist.

 

[snusmumriken]

Of course that one is going to yearn for that era of time only if one can reap off of colonialism. Yes, the Djin agrees to your request; you're reincarnated as a dark-shade skinned man, incorporated to display in one of English 'human zoos' functioning at the turn of the XXth century in Great Britain. You're looking at the cameras held by people coming to watch the displays in the zoo, taking pictures of you.

Human Zoos are a proof to show, that romanticizing the era of their functioning is either naive or obnoxiously elitist.

It goes without saying that to be a tourist at all, you need good health and an excess of money and/or time, and those things are not fairly distributed in the world. I don’t know what the solution to that is. Colonialism seems to be getting worse, not better.

However, the point of tourism - to me - is not to gloat over the pitiful condition of the less-privileged, but to immerse oneself in different cultures and admire them. It should be an education that broadens the mind and works against a colonial, exploitative mindset. In 1900 there were still amazingly different cultures to visit, even within Europe. As an adjunct to that, the camera does indeed objectify, you are right. But If the photos are taken with love and humanity, that charge should not stick. Better than the indifference and consumerism of the current selfie era, surely?

 

[Tel]

Better than the indifference and consumerism of the current selfie era, surely?

Agreed; I've found that shooting film, probably by virtue of its oddness, is often a point of conversation with strangers in contrast to cellphone photography which is so commonplace as to be invisible. When I'm travelling I keep an eye out for other film users and am pleased to say I see more and more "real" cameras out there in the world and interesting people behind them.

 

[Rayt]

It goes without saying that to be a tourist at all, you need good health and an excess of money and/or time, and those things are not fairly distributed in the world. I don’t know what the solution to that is. Colonialism seems to be getting worse, not better.

However, the point of tourism - to me - is not to gloat over the pitiful condition of the less-privileged, but to immerse oneself in different cultures and admire them. It should be an education that broadens the mind and works against a colonial, exploitative mindset. In 1900 there were still amazingly different cultures to visit, even within Europe. As an adjunct to that, the camera does indeed objectify, you are right. But If the photos are taken with love and humanity, that charge should not stick. Better than the indifference and consumerism of the current selfie era, surely?

Yes, empathy is the key. The typical tourist has barely 10 days and likely don’t get many chances to go abroad so do they deserve to be ridiculed by people of higher breeding and status who are repulsed by the sight of a selfie stick? For some it’s best to stick to Epcot, Disneyland and Blackpool.

 

[Vaughn]

Yes, empathy is the key. The typical tourist has barely 10 days and likely don’t get many chances to go abroad so do they deserve to be ridiculed by people of higher breeding and status who are repulsed by the sight of a selfie stick? For some it’s best to stick to Epcot, Disneyland and Blackpool.

Agreed.

I am reminded of the Far Sides cartoon where the 'natives' were rushing around to hide TVs and such when anthropologists show up unexpectedly. Heaven forbid that any society changes over time and are not staying old for us to experience. Perhaps we should turn whole regions into "Human zoos" so that we can be entertained by the primitives.

Perhaps some reduction in the generalizations are in order, too. "Tourists" come in all shape, sizes, reasons for traveling, and so forth.

We love pointing our finger at the today's problems, but forget that when we do, we have three fingers on the same hand pointing back at us.

Many tourists travel to be entertained...they can become obnoxious when they feel they are not getting their money's worth. Many travel to learn about the world...past and present...every moment can be a learning moment. My sister at 78 is off to Europe for a month because she loves traveling and meeting people. She can be a bit obnoxous to those people prefer not to talk to tourists. I travel to photograph and usually only meet people who make an effort to connect with me, being more on the shy side in public. And some travel to travel.

What we see today is the direct result of what came before...everything so wonderful, or so terrible, about the past is what creates the world we have today. We love to complain about the youth, while ignoring our responsibility of the creation of today's world. Kids learn primarily by watching the adults...and that's us.

 

[AnselMortensen]

I think this just about covers it.