What happened to Efke 25 Film?

[Photo Engineer]

Have you contacted J&C with your comments?

PE

 

[borgida]

Efke Film

That is so much BS! J&C has always given information as to what has happened. John has gone out of his way to be part of the apug community. Freestyle comes here to announce who has been promoted at their company with no further info.

I am not here to fight or get emotional. I don't trust Freestyle either for now. Its about the film and that is all I care about. I have spent hundreds of dollars on film that was no good. I emailed John at J and C Photo multiple times and never received an email back.

I have heard John is a good guy and I am sure he is. However, that is not what I am trying to resolve with this post. The post is about Efke 25 film and who has the film which is the real Efke film.

I

 

[borgida]

In terms of contacting J and C, when you call their 800 number, there is an answering service which takes orders. Also, I have emailed John at JandC photo.

My motive is photography and a love of the medium...I would not waste time with this post if I had film that was working. I would be photographing, scanning, and printing. I am good person who is honest and has integrity and does NOT have ulterior motives..

 

[Aggie]

In terms of contacting J and C, when you call their 800 number, there is an answering service which takes orders. Also, I have emailed John at JandC photo.

My motive is photography and a love of the medium...I would not waste time with this post if I had film that was working. I would be photographing, scanning, and printing. I am good person who is honest and has integrity and does NOT have ulterior motives..

The real Efke 25 is also the real Adox 25. They are the same damn film. If you have a real problem yell at the Efke people for not aging their films before shipping. As to John not answering, I've notice a nice trend of yours to bash him when he is not around (he posts if he is going to be gone for an extended period) Not one of your posts has anything to do other than to bash John at J&C. As to his answering service it is well known and stated on his website, they are not technical people. As to emails I know he answers them all. In fact I bet once he returns from Germany he will answer you here on the forums. He has alwys answered except when there is a person with an axe to grind. I think others should pull up your profile and see exactly what all your posts were about.

 

[lenny]

Was it not all a question of how long the film had aged the real reason for differences in what is the same exact film? If you are having troubles with the Adox, stick it in the fridge to age for a bit, then try it again. Even Kodak aged their films. Problem with Efke/Adox (they are the same film) is one batch to the next it depends on how long they let it age. If they get a large order, they will ship out not fully aged film. What I've always done is make sure I have plenty on hand, and when I get so low, order more so I can guarentee that it has aged at least in my fridge long enough. I never seem to run out of film that way. What is sad is the sellers like J&C are the ones who take the non aging issue in the shorts. Efke doesn't care. They sold their goods, now let the buyers figure it out.

This is bad behavior. However, what I will say is that I have film that is about a year old and it still looks bad. I'm not saying it isn't aging, but I have to say it doesn't make sense to me. (do you want to buy a few hundred sheets that you can age?)

I think this film is being compared to late model Efke, or whatever it was... not the really great stuff. I repeat my question - where is that Efke from over a year ago...?

I've had good conversations with John as well. However, what he said to me is contradicted by some of the things in this forum. It's possible I am unclear but either he, Freestyle, Fotokemika, or someone isn't telling the truth.

Where is the Efke from a year ago? Was it ever produced at 100 ISO properly?

And what the hell is wrong with Ilford, Kodak, Fuji, Bergger, Foma, Maco, Rollei, etc., etc., that they can't make a good, full silvered,tight grain film?

I think that there is certainly a market here for someone who knows how to make film.

I just want some film I can use...

Lenny

 

[borgida]

I am requesting that I be treated in a kind and civil manner please. I have not been vulgar to anyone and I would like to be treated a little nicer.

Thanks
Ross

 

[Michel Hardy-Vallée]

Guys, what the hell is wrong with you that you can't figure things out for yourselves by waiting that John is BACK from Photokina and give you answers? I never had a single unanswered email or PM on APUG (he's "jandc" in case you did not notice), even though his schedule sometimes made him answer me later.

Do you think that APUG is J&C's mother or what?

 

[Rolleijoe]

While I haven't tried the 4x5 flavor as of yet, I just finished processing my
1st roll of 120 Efke 25 (in Rodinal 1:40) and I have to say it's the clearest film base I've ever seen! Absolutely clear!

And the negatives look spectacular! Can't wait to print them tomorrow morning on the Fotokemika (Efke) VC fiber paper. This paper is the closest to the old Agfa papers I've seen in years.

Joe

 

[Aggie]

This is bad behavior. However, what I will say is that I have film that is about a year old and it still looks bad. I'm not saying it isn't aging, but I have to say it doesn't make sense to me. (do you want to buy a few hundred sheets that you can age?)

I think this film is being compared to late model Efke, or whatever it was... not the really great stuff. I repeat my question - where is that Efke from over a year ago...?

I've had good conversations with John as well. However, what he said to me is contradicted by some of the things in this forum. It's possible I am unclear but either he, Freestyle, Fotokemika, or someone isn't telling the truth.

Where is the Efke from a year ago? Was it ever produced at 100 ISO properly?

And what the hell is wrong with Ilford, Kodak, Fuji, Bergger, Foma, Maco, Rollei, etc., etc., that they can't make a good, full silvered,tight grain film?

I think that there is certainly a market here for someone who knows how to make film.

I just want some film I can use...

Lenny

Since no film is up to your standards, Ron Mowry (photoengineer) teaches a class on how to coat your own film. Why not take his class, then you can find out just how hard it is.

 

[lenny]

Since no film is up to your standards, Ron Mowry (photoengineer) teaches a class on how to coat your own film. Why not take his class, then you can find out just how hard it is.

I found the idea very interesting. I talked to him earlier this year. The film he creates is closer to a Litho film, not quite as sensitive as one would like... he gave me an idea of how difficult this would actually be....

Had I not used good film in the past, I would be much less upset.

 

[Tom Hoskinson]

...Had I not used good film in the past, I would be much less upset.

What was the Manufacturer, size, Emulsion Number and Expiration Date of the Good Film? What Developer, Dilution and Agitation Procedure did you use? What was your target Contrast Index? What Contrast Index did you achieve?

I have the Same questions for the Bad Film.

 

[borgida]

Check out the link. I do not think Efke and Adox are the same...

http://www.shutterbug.com/news/072706freestyle/

I am ordering a box from Freestyle tomorrow and plan on testing on wednesday in PMK Pyro....lets hope that the film is good

 

[epatsellis]

I can't say whether they are the same, but I can tell you that the EFKE 25 I used today is exactly the same as the last 10 rolls or so that I've shot. I had a new batch and shot a roll of old and new, processed both at the same time, no difference whatsoever.
Exposed at EI of 25, processed D76 1:1, 8:30 :10 per min agitation, and they look just gorgeous, as usual.

erie

 

[Aggie]

Check out the link. I do not think Efke and Adox are the same...

http://www.shutterbug.com/news/072706freestyle/

I am ordering a box from Freestyle tomorrow and plan on testing on wednesday in PMK Pyro....lets hope that the film is good

Borgida, we get it you hate J&C and you will hype Freestyle. That is your whole reason for all of your posts, and starting this thread.

Both are sponsors of apug. Seems strange to me that Freestyle gets their hype in the forums by J&C being bashed? Is this just my observation? I've watched this phenomenom (how ever you spell it) over the last few years. What is wrong with having both companies here? It's not like one has to be the only supplier of film and have a monopoly. Seems we as photographers benefit from having more than one supplier.

 

[roteague]

I don't buy a lot from J&C, because I don't shoot a lot of B&W, but I ALWAYS buy from him when I do. Nothing against Freestyle, but I've met John and he is a first rate guy, and I trust what he says.

 

[RobertP]

Well it seems as I may have to cross Freestyle off my film buying list. If they'll stoop to using a troll to bolster their own sales by bashing JandC then JandC just boosted their sales by me. I guess when it comes to business some people just throw ethics out the window. This entire rant ends in a link to a shutterbug article promoting Freestyle. Aggie, not only is it obvious, it is disturbing to think someone would use such third rate techniques thinking they will pick up sales.

 

[Jerevan]

I think the answer Mirko Boeddecker gave in the forum thread at http://www.fotolaborforum.eu/index.php?showtopic=1057 is an honest try at explaining things.

I am using an averaging meter, roll or small format film and develop by hand. I think this "sloppiness" could very well mask the troubles someone with a spotmeter, some sheet film and good agitation technique could have with the exact same batch of film.

 

[lenny]

Borgida, we get it you hate J&C and you will hype Freestyle. That is your whole reason for all of your posts, and starting this thread.

Excuse me, but your assertion is plain stupid. I happen to know Ross and he is sincerely trying to find a solution.

Get a life.

 

[Alicouscous]

Why did fotoimpex open a new online-shop wit another name, where they sell efke and not adox in 35mm film ? strange no ?

http://www.lumiere-shop.de/index.php/cat/c171_Adox-Efke-35mm---120-Film.html

 

[Ole]

What? I can't find any direct connection between fotoimpex and lumiere-shop?

 

[photomc]

Guess you guys could go watch them coating Adox and Efke to be sure which is whic...but it maight be hard to "see" anything

 

[Tom Hoskinson]

Check out the link. I do not think Efke and Adox are the same...

http://www.shutterbug.com/news/072706freestyle/

I am ordering a box from Freestyle tomorrow and plan on testing on wednesday in PMK Pyro....lets hope that the film is good

OK, borgida: I'll try this again: What was the Manufacturer, size, Emulsion Number and Expiration Date of the Good Film? What Developer, Dilution and Agitation Procedure did you use? What was your target Contrast Index? What Contrast Index did you achieve?

I have the Same questions for the Bad Film.

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

Check out the link. I do not think Efke and Adox are the same...

http://www.shutterbug.com/news/072706freestyle/

I am ordering a box from Freestyle tomorrow and plan on testing on wednesday in PMK Pyro....lets hope that the film is good

Freestyle posted this press release themselves on APUG, and we've had a thread about it--

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

The key thing is that Freestyle seems to have an exclusive right to distribute the "Efke brand," but not necessarily to the film in the box, which may be sold under other brands. Freestyle has never refuted this, despite the fact that there are members of Freestyle's advisory board, and I would guess Freestyle employees, who monitor APUG.

Meanwhile John from J&C has always been forthcoming about which films and papers are rebranded and how. Unfortunately, the same may not be said of repackagers like Bergger ("Made in Europe"), Cachet, Maco, Rollei, and Freestyle. So we users have to test, glean what information we can from the press and the internet, and figure out what's what.

I've bought Efke and Adox films, and they all come in the same packaging except for the label, with emulsion numbers in the same sequence, and performance has been similar from batch to batch, with the kinds of variations that you would expect in an old-tech film, from the days when it was expected that you might have to test each batch of film to get the most out of it.

When I get a new batch of Efke/Adox 100 or J&C Classic/Forte/Classicpan 400, I usually start by making a test shot with film from the old batch on one side of the holder and the new film on the other, and I process them together to see if I need to do further testing. So far, variations have not been substantial in general, but here is a thread discussing one such test from 2004 (J&C Classic 400 and old Arista.EDU 400, both from Forte)--

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

I'm happy to continue to purchase both from Freestyle and J&C, as well as other suppliers like B&H, and I think it's a good thing that there are many options.

 

[borgida]

Message to Aggie

Aggie

You know, I am a good person and I asked that I be treated with respect. However, you seem to not have that capacity. You pass judgments on me but we have never even talked or met. The truth is, I know a lot more about film testing and photography than you will ever know. I did film testing for a whole year with Fuji, Efke, Kodak, Ilford with all different types of developers (PMK Pyro, Presycol, Rodinal, TMAX, BW2, and others). Why did I do this test? Because I want a film and development combination that works? I do not care about JandC or Freestyle. I care about the FILM.

I do not know who you are or what sort of problems you are having..But your DISPLACED anger is not appreciated.

 

[Photo Engineer]

In terms of contacting J and C, when you call their 800 number, there is an answering service which takes orders. Also, I have emailed John at JandC photo.

My motive is photography and a love of the medium...I would not waste time with this post if I had film that was working. I would be photographing, scanning, and printing. I am good person who is honest and has integrity and does NOT have ulterior motives..

Borgida;

John is returning from Europe this week AFAIK. If I e-mail him, I get a message stating that he will not return messages until then. So, my question remains unanswered --- Did you contact John, and did you get an answer? Your answer above begs the issue.

Now, as to EFKE film in general. They use a very very old coating facility, probably originally made in the 20s - 40s era. I have pictures of it sent me by friends, and am surprised that the film and paper can be produced with any measure of quality as compared to Kodak and Fuji.

The plant has no air conditioning, and so the film is air dried at ambient conditions thereby influencing the quality (curve shape, speed and keeping among others) very much. In addition, many practicies and chemicals used come from that same era thereby limiting quality.

For all of this, they do make a fine film, comparable to the best from that same era. But then, so can I in my own darkroom. So, when film must be shipped thousands of miles in the hold of a ship, and then sit on a shelf for who knows how long at both ends of the trip, don't complain about quality.

As for 'complete' explanations. I would guess that there may be legal reasons why all of these companies don't fully discuss their interconnections, but then I really don't know and don't care. When I want good solid images that repeat daily and yearly, I use Kodak, Ilford and Fuji products. The cost difference is peanuts in terms of my time and the chemistry and lost shots and etc... You get my picture? False economy can kill an otherwise good photographic shot.

PE