What happened here?

[martinsmith99]

Most of the roll looks as though the outer edges are overexposed.



Neopan 400 (35mm) with Rodinal 1:50. 30 secs initial stirring, 10 secs stirring every minute.

Camera Chinon CE-3 with new light seals and previously working ok.

 

[BobNewYork]

The lens mount isn't loose at all, is it?

Bob H

 

[oscura]

Hi !

Do you have it on each view ? Do you check the seals ? Previously works but perhaps they have moved ?

 

[Mike1234]

Is the fixer fresh and mixed properly... film fixed long enough at the proper temp?

 

[canuhead]

I'm going with agitation issues

 

[Stefan Findel]

Your development agitation sounds OK, and I don't see any other way this could have happened in the darkroom. So the camera back must be leaking light.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I'm going with agitation issues

Too much agitation causes over development of the negative [black] which gives a white edge.

Steve

 

[pentaxuser]

I am assuming this is what the prints look like i.e. the negs are darkened along the edges. If so, I have had something similar happen occasionally with my Agfa Isolette. When I took the roll out of the camera I hadn't bothered to ensure that it was very tightly rolled and then taped down nice and tight. If it isn't then light can penetrate the edges of the film.

In the case of the Agfa it is rolled onto the take-up spool by hand and maybe isn't as tightly rolled as with a power driven take-up spool. To test for this try opening the camera in the total darkness then either rolling the film very tightly and sealing or better still putting it in a light tight spool holder whle still in total darkness and only removing it from this holder in total darkness and still in total darkness feeding it onto a reel and developing it.

If your phenomenon is repeated then it suggests a light leak in the camera but if it cures the problem then a loose roll is likely to be the answer.

Provided you have access to a darkroom or other dark space, I might be tempted to always take the film out in total darkness and use a light tight spool holder.

pentaxuser

 

[Denis K]

If your darkroom is not completely dark you could have light leaking in at the top and bottom of the film spool that goes into your tank. When you said you were using "stirring" what did you mean. Is this a small tank or some other kind of development system.

Since this is a 35mm camera, there should be a very short length of film at the end of the roll that never gets transported throught the camera. Is any of this portion of the negative fogged? Is it fogged along the top and bottom of the film in between the images?

Denis K

 

[martinsmith99]

Thanks for all the replies.

The tank in question was a Paterson System 4 (single 35mm). Instead of inverting, I used the stirring tool; maybe light is leaking in here? The end of the film shows no fogging.

I'll try the next roll out of my Spotmatic and see if the problem persists. I've inspected the Chinon again and all looks good.

 

[Bob Carnie]

This is an agitation in development issue. Try inverting and twisting during the first 15-25 seconds of development and problem will go away.

Thanks for all the replies.

The tank in question was a Paterson System 4 (single 35mm). Instead of inverting, I used the stirring tool; maybe light is leaking in here? The end of the film shows no fogging.

I'll try the next roll out of my Spotmatic and see if the problem persists. I've inspected the Chinon again and all looks good.

 

[Denis K]

I didn't mean to suggest that the darkroom needs to be dark once you get the film in your Patterson tank. I was worried about when the film was being loaded into the film spool and while the film spool was being loaded into the tank.

If the last few inches at the end of the film are not fogged then that puts the proverbial ball back in the camera side of the court. I was hoping the problem was in the darkroom as that is easier to fix. It sounds like you have a plan of attack.

 

[BetterSense]

Looks like agitation. My 4x5 sheet film looks like that when I develop it in to small of a tray; the edges get overdevolped.

 

[Bob Carnie]

I agree with bettersense

, the edges are getting more agitation and developing out more, middle is taking longer to set.. the first 20 seconds are critical critical critical, get some inversion and twisting happening.
If this was a light leak problem either at camera or loading the film to the tank the effect would be more pronounced and just for fun ,, to the OP , can you see clean rebate with numbers, if so once again the culprit is agitation.
camera fog and loading fog would darken the rebate and the numbers would be non existant.

Looks like agitation. My 4x5 sheet film looks like that when I develop it in to small of a tray; the edges get overdevolped.

 

[vedmak]

Thanks for all the replies.

The tank in question was a Paterson System 4 (single 35mm). Instead of inverting, I used the stirring tool; maybe light is leaking in here? The end of the film shows no fogging.

if the end of the film shows no fogging, you may have a leak when you removed your film from the camera in a too bright a light, so that the edges in the upper part of the spool got hit, and it did not penetrated deeper...

 

[canuhead]

I've seen this with inverted tank agitation but don't have enough experience with the Patterson tanks and the stirring rod. Trying to understand how you would have agitation problems if spinning the reel on it's axis and thus flowing developer along the length of film. Could the sides of the reel cause enough flow disruption leading to overdevelopment ?

 

[Anscojohn]

I suspect two issues: overagitation; plus some light fogging on the one edge.

 

[pentaxuser]

What happened here? In my case its simple. I didn't read your thread properly. It is now quite clear on re-reading the thread that you are talking about 35mm and not 120. I don't know where I picked up the idea that it was 120. My answer is completely nonsensical! Sorry about that.

The solution is equally simple. I need to read threads properly.

pentaxuser

 

[PhotoJim]

The stirring tool is designed to help you get rid of air bubbles. Proper agitation involves putting on the plastic cap and inverting. That might be worth a try.

Can you scan the negative? It would be a lot more helpful than looking at the print. Leave the scan in negative form; don't turn it into a positive.

 

[jfish]

Surge. And an easy way to prove this is to show the rebate (sprocket hole area) in your print and scan. If there was ANY light leak, it would show up there as well. If there is no unusual density in the rebate edge, there was no light leak, plain and simple. Easiest way to get rid of it is to add a different aspect to your agitation. Since this is 35mm and the film that shows this the most, I always roll my tanks also during the development. Simply continue with your 3 or 4 inversions and twists in 5 seconds every 30 seconds, but after the first 2 or 3 minutes, roll the tank on its side, first in 1 direction for 5 seconds, then in the opposite direction for 5 seconds when the next 30 sec. interval comes. Do that twice, then go back to the inversion sequence for 2 cycles, then the roll again for 2 cycles, and repeat. The increased edge density caused by surge will be gone.

HTH

 

[railwayman3]

What happened here? In my case its simple. I didn't read your thread properly. It is now quite clear on re-reading the thread that you are talking about 35mm and not 120. I don't know where I picked up the idea that it was 120. My answer is completely nonsensical! Sorry about that.

pentaxuser

Not nonsensical if it were roll film....that was my first thought, edge fogging from a loose roll would look exactly like that. Can't see this being the problem here with 35mm , unless the rebates are fogged right over the sprocket holes....and I could only envisage that if a bulk roll had been part fogged before being loaded into the cassette.

 

[Ronald Moravec]

Stirring is the problem. Without proper agitation, fresh developer is brought only to the edges and not to the center.

Find a different agaition scheme. There are many and they all work. But stiring, shaking, swishing are not among them. Inversion works if you leave some headroom for the developer to move. Rolling also works, two reels with film only on the bottom one and developer ONLY to cover the film. You can invert with the same scheme. And no you do not get "flow marks". That is from too little and not randomised agitation.

Paterson tanks have a twist stick that is for the first initial agitation only. After that, invert. It is right in their instructions.

 

[Mike1234]

Try re-fixing.