What fuel Leica hatred...

[Sirius Glass]

I have a Tessina. I do not have the pop-up view finder so I found a prism which makes it heavy. The spring drive is quiet but it is very weak and does not advance more than a few frames before it needs to be wound again.

 

[Ces1um]

Optically it is a carbon copy of the original Thambar, with single coating. Some people like parableptic lenses.

excellent word usage- "parableptic". Had to look that one up.

 

[E. von Hoegh]

excellent word usage- "parableptic". Had to look that one up.

Thanks very much, but I learned "parablepsy" from an optometrist daughter of an old friend. Interestingly it has two usages, bad vision in a general sense and bad translation or reading in a literary sense.

 

[BrianVS]

Just wait until someone making the X-Files asks to borrow this lens.

grass2_f12 by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr

On the random combination of optical elements for photographic lenses.

 

[Ces1um]

Just wait until someone making the X-Files asks to borrow this lens.
On the random combination of optical elements for photographic lenses.

It definitely does produce a unique image though, doesn't it?

 

[Arthurwg]

Just remember, photography cheaper than yachting.

 

[guangong]

A lot cheaper than yachting. The rule of thumb is annual maintenance is 1/4 the cost of the boat. After all, these things sit ion salt water. Then there is the captain, and one or two cuties to serve cocktails. Photography is much cheaper...but the cocktails would be nice.

 

[beemermark]

I know people that spend $60K on a pickup truck.

Do you hate them too?

$60K for a new pickup is middle of the road

 

[beemermark]

Look for the new Thambar 2.2/90mm pages on the Leica site... Clearly we don't talk photography anymore. $6,500 a pop to get blurry pictures? Come on...

It seems (to me being a very old photographer) that people lust after really crappy lenses. I'm not going to start a war but Ive been continually amazed when the herd just has to have that 1950ish lens with poor contrast, soft corners and vignetting because it has great bokeh. So Leica has jumped on that bandwagon by introducing lenses that were great in the '30's (that's 1930). I bet there marketing and engineering departments can't stop laughing.

 

[Robert Maxey]

IShow me a dozen photos taken with a dozen different 35mm cameras, one of which was a Leica. Double-blind test, with the only variation being the camera - same photographer, same scene, same light, same film, same developer, printed on the same paper, by the same printer. If you then have 100 people look at said prints, and they can pick out which one was shot by the Leica more than 50% of the time, then I'll buy that there's something super-worthy about them..

(Snipped a bit for brevity)

The reason I bought both Hasselblad and Leica, as well as a Yashica (rather than a more expensive RTS) was to handle Zeiss lenses. This decision was largely based on (more or less) the test you suggested. I knew what our customers shot with and because I processed their film, I knew the film they used. I would also see their Kodachrome slides and my Kodachrome slides and prints made from the images and there was a clearly defined quality line between some brands.

So for me, this was proof that some brands are clearly and demonstrably better. That said, i often printed negatives made with a Bessa and Color Skopar lenses and my quality line blurred a bit.

But, Japanese optics got better and I am no longer sure. And which lens is sharper can be proven. My guess is some Japanese makers build some great optics. I think eventually, digital will improve as well.

Bob

 

[Chan Tran]

I am not sure that there is Leica hatred. I personally don't hate Leica. I do think Leica did the right thing. The prices are out of my reach but I don't think they are overpriced.

 

[Robert Maxey]

I know people that spend $60K on a pickup truck.

Do you hate them too?

First rule of modern business: Make it costly and people will buy. Get a "star" to endorse it and people will really buy.

I do think people will buy JUST because it is expensive and i think people will buy because it pleases them and deep pockets are the cost of enjoying something. Take me, Forty Grand is most certainly not too much for a classic Indian Chief, yet others will scratch their head and ask why.

I say it really should not matter to anyone if they buy something costly. I suspect in many cases it is not hate, it is envy.

Bob

 

[Robert Maxey]

this hatred shown at both sides of the gear spectrum
there are people that dislike leica users
and there are people who dislike lo-fi users ( lomographers or holga users )
equally as much ... its a tribal thing

I for one would never hate a lo-fi user. I would wonder why not use a better camera, but that's just me. I worked with a Realist user that could never see why anyone who likes photography would shoot flat images.

Bob

 

[Robert Maxey]

I am not sure that there is Leica hatred. I personally don't hate Leica. I do think Leica did the right thing. The prices are out of my reach but I don't think they are overpriced.

It is interesting to look at what Leica cameras sold for in earlier days and convert those prices to today's prices. One of the biggest reasons we did not sell many Leica Cameras was due to the high cost. Always been costly.

Bob

 

[PerTulip]

"Hate"....why should I hate a company, camera maker, etc. They market their products towards an audience that might not include me. I can consider it a smart move or not, but I don't take it personally.

 

[Chan Tran]

It is interesting to look at what Leica cameras sold for in earlier days and convert those prices to today's prices. One of the biggest reasons we did not sell many Leica Cameras was due to the high cost. Always been costly.

Bob

I actually think the used price of the Pentax K1000 is more overpriced than new or used Leica.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

"Hate"....why should I hate a company, camera maker, etc. They market their products towards an audience that might not include me. I can consider it a smart move or not, but I don't take it personally.

I can't speak for others as to why they feel a certain way about a given product, but I think in at least some cases, it's not the camera, but the people who own them and wave them about as status symbols instead of actually making good pictures with them. A great photographer can make a great image with a pinhole, a Holga, a Brownie, a Leica, a Hasselblad or a Linhof. A bad photographer thinks that having the Leica, Hasselblad or Linhof makes their pictures good. No, their pictures are sharp, contrasty, with smooth bokeh, of nothing.

 

[PerTulip]

... but the people who own them and wave them about as status symbols instead of actually making good pictures with them....

So what? If it makes them happy, so be it. Leica (and others) certainly is somewhere between fashion accessories and collectible for many people, and I think some of their "special editions" are absurd, but why should I hate it? There's obviously a market for it, Leica is one of the few still producing film cameras, so I am perfectly Ok with it. I won't be a customer, but I reserve "hate" for other facets of life, society, etc.

 

[Robert Maxey]

So what? If it makes them happy, so be it. Leica (and others) certainly is somewhere between fashion accessories and collectible for many people, and I think some of their "special editions" are absurd, but why should I hate it? There's obviously a market for it, Leica is one of the few still producing film cameras, so I am perfectly Ok with it. I won't be a customer, but I reserve "hate" for other facets of life, society, etc.

Isn't the reason we have expensive stuff is because people will pay? Seems this goes way back to the early days. Purple dye was once reserved for Royalty either by decree or by virtue of the fact no peasant could afford the dyestuff. With Leica, i tend to think they build cameras in a very expensive way and their high cost is a mix: costly to make and people will pay.

I remember when my boss ordered two gold plated Leicas. Not because he wanted them; he knew exactly who to sell them to.

Bob

 

[removed account4]

I would wonder why not use a better camera

the best camera is the one you 1 have with you and 2 understand and know how to use ..
maybe you don't have distain for lo-fi users but there is a lot of it, it usually runs along the same lines
as technical vs creative photography
using a light meter or sunny 16 and a handful of other things some folks don't appreciate...

its really too bad because one. of the reasons film is still around is that lo fi users use a lot of film, much more than the weekend warrier
with the Leica or Hasys who shoots 1 roll ( maybe ) and they're done or the LF user who conserves their exposures because of time, expense and effort &c...
people who use those HI FI formats should actually be THANKING LO FI users because they wouldn't be shooting anything if they weren't around.

 

[Robert Maxey]

t
its really too bad because one. of the reasons film is still around is that lo fi users use a lot of film, much more than the weekend warrierwith the Leica or Hasys who shoots 1 roll ( maybe ) and they're done or the LF user who conserves their exposures because of time, expense and effort &people who use those HI FI formats should actually be THANKING LO FI users because they wouldn't be shooting anything if they weren't around.

Not sure i agree, but no facts to properly disagree, either.

Could be people went digital because it was easy. No lab, no effluents, no darkroom and other factors. And due to the rise in digital, manufacturers saw a slowdown in film and paper sales and gave up. Perhaps digital cut down delivery time so their clients demand digital images.

One change begins another change and before you know it, very few saddle makers are left.

Bob

 

[removed account4]

Not sure i agree, but no facts to properly disagree, either.

Could be people went digital because it was easy. No lab, no effluents, no darkroom and other factors. And due to the rise in digital, manufacturers saw a slowdown in film and paper sales and gave up. Perhaps digital cut down delivery time so their clients demand digital images.

One change begins another change and before you know it, very few saddle makers are left.

Bob

it has nothing to do with why people went digital.
while all the weekend warriors were buying ex pro gear and shelf queens and bragging about it on the web, young people bought lo fi cameras, lomo cameras, holgas &c and shot a ton of film. they kept photography alive, the weekend warriors shot nothing by comparison, a lot of them ( not all, obviously ) just bragged about their gear. as I said they should be thanking these people because without them we might not have the selection of films we currently have today.

 

[eddie]

I would wonder why not use a better camera,...

The choice of camera depends on your desired result. I did this with a Diana. Couldn't do it with a Leica, Hasselblad, etc.

 

[ts1000]

Perhaps, people tend to view price for a piece of technology, proportionate to the claims of that piece of technology.

Extraordinary price, presumes extraordinary claims.
And 'extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence' (this specific phrase attributed to Carl Sagan ).

When a critic does not find the evidence justifying the extraordinary claims (which, in turn, would fail justify the extraordinary price) -- the disappointment shows.

 

[mshchem]

I've no experience with Leica digital, I would need to drive several hours to even look at one. I have had, and still have Leica cameras and lenses. I let a novice friend look and play around with my silver chrome M6ttl and chrome 50mm Summicron. That lens is made from brass to accommodate the silver finish and has the weight to prove it. I have Cosina Zeiss and Voigtlander lenses as well, they are brilliant! When you put everything together, it's usually made "self evident" why people love the Leica cameras, lenses and even "the brand".
If I was dripping in money I would fly to California and hit up the Leica stores. On second thought, fly to NYC, spend a few days camera and photo shopping, then on to London, let the jet lag catch up then Germany, I could spend a month in Germany . Charter a cargo plane coming home. I sure as hell wouldn't have spent several billion dollars on a 10 minute rocket ride