What fuel Leica hatred...

[Craig75]

That looks brutal set up.exactly what i need.

I wouldnt even mind running my G1 into ground over there but the focus wheel is so so easy to move by accident it just makes it useless when out of autofocus.

That set up looks perfect. Im on it

 

[E. von Hoegh]

maybe but one knows that people think if someone has an expensive camera and/or lens
that #1 makes them a better photographer, #2 makes their photographs better too
and people believe if they have an expensive camera that somehow they will be better too
i have heard arguments that better cameras allow a person to fight less with their equipment
and they are easier to use more ergonomically kind so who knows maybe it is true.
i wish i could afford an expensive camera cause my photographs and photography could
use an edge..i do have a camera and lens owned by someone famous and unfortunately it
fights me over what photographs to take, kind of like the red shoes and the dancer

My first 35 was a Kodak 35 RF, ca. 1973-74; I'd have been 13 or 14. My great uncle Bill gave me an old '30s Weston, and I used Kodachrome and Plus-X which I developed and printed at school. I didn't know that uncoated lenses were no good, so the pictures were just fine, looking at the 'chromes today I'm still impressed with how good that camera was. My 50mm Nikon lenses now are not noticeably better, but the cameras are SO much more versatile the only limitaton is me.
Ergonomics are overrated, they matter when photgrphing fast action, perhaps, but I have no problems reloading a bottom loading Leica type (hint: get a spare takeup spool) in way less than a minute, and I love the layout of the controls on a Contax II.
Edit: I've photographed bobsleds going through Shady at Mt. van Hoevenberg, panning with a 4x5 Linhof Super Technika, and I've seen an 8x10 negative taken at the same location, panned. Ergonomics...

 

[faberryman]

Ergonomics are overrated, they matter when photgrphing fast action, perhaps, but I have no problems reloading a bottom loading Leica type (hint: get a spare takeup spool) in way less than a minute, and I love the layout of the controls on a Contax II.

Not everyone thinks ergonomics are overrated, and not just for fast action.

 

[E. von Hoegh]

Not everyone thinks ergonomics are overrated, and not just for fast action.

Agreed. However, familiarity and practice go a very long way. Instant gratification does not.

 

[faberryman]

Agreed. However, familiarity and practice go a very long way. Instant gratification does not.

Not sure what ergonomics has to do with instant gratification.

 

[E. von Hoegh]

Not sure what ergonomics has to do with instant gratification.

In my opinion and experience, things which involve effort, physical and or mental, very often have greater rewards. YMMV.

 

[E. von Hoegh]

That looks brutal set up.exactly what i need.

I wouldnt even mind running my G1 into ground over there but the focus wheel is so so easy to move by accident it just makes it useless when out of autofocus.

That set up looks perfect. Im on it

What precislely does "brutal" mean? I mean, I once had a "brutal" automobile, 7 and one quarter litres and I shifted at 7500 rpm. Sounds stupid anent cameras.

 

[faberryman]

In my opinion and experience, things which involve effort, physical and or mental, very often have greater rewards. YMMV.

I don't necessarily disagree, but there is a science of ergonomics for a reason, and it's purpose is not to make things less rewarding.

 

[E. von Hoegh]

I don't necessarily disagree, but there is a science of ergonomics for a reason, and it's purpose is not to make things less rewarding.

Yes there is. Economy of energy, IIRC.
But I'm the sort of.nutcase who thinks cars should be hand cranked and motorcycles should be kicked. Horses should be petted.

 

[Craig75]

What precislely does "brutal" mean? I mean, I once had a "brutal" automobile, 7 and one quarter litres and I shifted at 7500 rpm. Sounds stupid anent cameras.

ie they weren't messing around when they made that. solves all my problems immediately!

 

[E. von Hoegh]

ie they weren't messing around when they made that. solves all my problems immediately!

Ok, an odd usage but I get it. My apolgies.

 

[BrianVS]

Yes there is. Economy of energy, IIRC.
But I'm the sort of.nutcase who thinks cars should be hand cranked and motorcycles should be kicked. Horses should be petted.

You need a Voigtlander Prominent 35mm camera!

 

[E. von Hoegh]

You need a Voigtlander Prominent 35mm camera!

I know. For now, the '36 Contax II with provenance and all original accessories, including the bill of sale, from July 3 1937 will have to do. I also want a Vitessa. And a 1913 model K Isotta Fraschini.And the only extant S76 FIAT. And that lovely Reid...

 

[MattKing]

I don't necessarily disagree, but there is a science of ergonomics for a reason, and it's purpose is not to make things less rewarding.

Yes there is. Economy of energy, IIRC.
But I'm the sort of.nutcase who thinks cars should be hand cranked and motorcycles should be kicked. Horses should be petted.

Not just economy of energy. Ergonomics also deals with things not getting in their own way, being obvious and intuitive in operation, and not causing pain and injury when they are used correctly. All of which might arguably apply to your hand cranked car and kick started motorcycles. No comment from me about horses.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

I love that camera. Really pretty and small. Im expecting some crowd scenes /demos (although hopefully i will be proved wrong) so i want a 90mm - short base going to trip it up for focusing?

Actually, with crowd scenes/demonstrations, sticking to the 45mm will be more than tight enough - you'll probably want to live with the 28 on it most of the time! You may not have enough room to use the 90.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

I know. For now, the '36 Contax II with provenance and all original accessories, including the bill of sale, from July 3 1937 will have to do. I also want a Vitessa. And a 1913 model K Isotta Fraschini.And the only extant S76 FIAT. And that lovely Reid...

If you're looking for a Prominent, I have one with the 50mm f2 I'd be willing to part with. Even has the original metal (!) lens hood.

 

[Craig75]

Actually, with crowd scenes/demonstrations, sticking to the 45mm will be more than tight enough - you'll probably want to live with the 28 on it most of the time! You may not have enough room to use the 90.

I was either thinking for speakers / rally leaders or more likely just being a little out the way - These things can turn into a shoot to kill quickly so i want some distance. Hopefully there wont be anything and it will be peaceful but....

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

I was either thinking for speakers / rally leaders or more likely just being a little out the way - These things can turn into a shoot to kill quickly so i want some distance. Hopefully there wont be anything and it will be peaceful but....

For use with a longer lens, you might also consider one of the Bessa R bodies. They're newer, probably at least as robust if not moreso than the CL, and since they're 30+ years newer than a CL, much less likely to have a failure of electronics that would not be field repairable.

 

[Craig75]

For use with a longer lens, you might also consider one of the Bessa R bodies. They're newer, probably at least as robust if not moreso than the CL, and since they're 30+ years newer than a CL, much less likely to have a failure of electronics that would not be field repairable.

Yes i thought about a 135mm lens too to keep out the way of anything but then bag gets bigger. I have a pentax 110 i can use for 140 or 220ish mm so i do have an emergency tele camera. Not ideal but i can get something at that focal length which i can just stick in a pocket

The only definite gear i have settled on is edixa 16 as shirt pocket camera.

CL just has a meter so if that gives out its no big deal no? Cle looks more tricked out electronically and i wouldnt fancy that but earlier CL model looks far simpler unless im missing something

 

[BrianVS]

135mm lenses are not expensive but tend to work better on the bigger bodies- both for focus accuracy and the RF windows are far from the lens mount. If the RF window is positioned to close to the mount, Some longer lenses block it and you lose focus.

So- for a camera with the RF window closer to the mount, get the shortest lens possible with the smallest filter diameter.

The Nikkor 13.5cm F3.5 is less intrusive than the Leica and Canon lenses here:.

Three_135s by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr

 

[Craig75]

Invaluable advice guys. This is super helpful.

A small 135mm to leave in hotel / wherever and to take out for specific events is starting to seem sensible. A medium / slightly wide prime and a tele and im done. No need for bag of lenses.

I know where im going now with this. Feeling confident!

(Ive completely derailed a i hate leica thread into a what setup should i get.....)

 

[BrianVS]

The only definite gear i have settled on is edixa 16 as shirt pocket camera.

RIMG0103 by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr

Ever held a Tessina... uses 35mm film, spooled into smaller cassettes. But you can develop them on a 35mm reel.

 

[Craig75]

RIMG0103 by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr

Ever held a Tessina... uses 35mm film, spooled into smaller cassettes. But you can develop them on a 35mm reel.

Yeah i looked at them but i wasnt sure about spring drive - i doubt i could afford a silent one so i wasnt sure how noisy, if at all, drive is on a regular one and how likely it is spring might give up ghost. Tessinas are very rare in uk so i couldnt find one to try before buy.

I tried a mec and minolta qt but settled on edixa 16mb as its super small with really nice xenar lens, quiet and can use slit film (even if shutter / aperture combos are limited). Its a little slimmer than a minolta 16 and only 0.5cm longer but you dont need to extend it to wind so its a genius design (and lens focuses which is a serious pain with minolta 16)

Originally i was going to do whole thing on 16mm but along the way i realised i was going to need some sort of tele and a 16mm camera that can take a tele is a pain to find / getting on in years / pricey / decidely big so its going to have to be a 16 /35 combo.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

Yes i thought about a 135mm lens too to keep out the way of anything but then bag gets bigger. I have a pentax 110 i can use for 140 or 220ish mm so i do have an emergency tele camera. Not ideal but i can get something at that focal length which i can just stick in a pocket

The only definite gear i have settled on is edixa 16 as shirt pocket camera.

CL just has a meter so if that gives out its no big deal no? Cle looks more tricked out electronically and i wouldnt fancy that but earlier CL model looks far simpler unless im missing something

The other thing about the CL is the metering probe - if you use wider-angle lenses with it, you have to be very careful that the protruding rear elements don't poke into the metering arm that swings down. But both the CL and CLE are of an age where the circuits in them are prone to age-related degeneration.

 

[BrianVS]

The Spring Wound motor is very quiet.
The electric motor drive version is very rare, and the external AAA battery pack for it is bigger than the camera. It's a collector's item only.
I have the Minoltas- used a 16-II for many years as a teenager.