What fuel Leica hatred...

[blockend]

British craftsmanship in general doesn't seem to get the recognition it deserves.

That's true with regard to photography, certainly. There are lots of great cameras and lenses out there, of which Leica is only one manufacturer, but they seem to get 99% of the attention.

 

[Craig75]

There is the beautiful Ilford Witness as well

https://www.photomemorabilia.co.uk/Ilford/Witness.html

I dont know how £121 translates into today's money but it sounds hefty

Any precision equipment coming out of Western Europe was / is always going to be waaay more than it's Japanese equivalent and thats just the way it is.

And as Brian said - it's not like the mount or design is out of reach of most photographers as there are so many originals and copies out there

 

[BrianVS]

Yeah. Uk wasnt exactly awash with highend 35mm camera makers so if you want to shoot british gear theres a hellish premium. How much is cooke lens compared to leica equivalent?

I shot with the Cooke Amotal 5cm F2 in Leica mount on loan to me- a good lens, comparable with the coated Summitar.
Had swirlies like a fast double-Gauss.
The price of the lens on Ebay is several times that of a Summitar, and the Summitar is at least double the Minolta Chiyoko 5cm F2. I picked up the latter lens for ~$175 or so, mint condition. It is hard-coated, Rigid Mount, 43mm filters, and the same optical block diagram as the Summitar. I have two Summitars- the Minolta is better.

 

[blockend]

I dont know how £121 translates into today's money but it sounds hefty

£3220 in today's money

The Ford Anglia E494A cost £309 inc. taxes .

 

[removed account4]

That's true with regard to photography, certainly. There are lots of great cameras and lenses out there, of which Leica is only one manufacturer, but they seem to get 99% of the attention.

when you are the original 35mm camera company and your name is iconic
you are going to get a lot of people trying to overthrow the king. you are going to get a lot of people
who claim because they use it their fixer don't stink, and a lot of people claiming their knock off or clone or
other camera of a different design that uses the same media is as good or better .. it goes with the territory.
and the idea that they sell amorphic(?) lenses to panasonic, that they have interests in other "stuff" makes people
even more peeved and cranky. i mean lomographers and leica fanboy(girl) users are both used almost as slurs in some circles.

its too bad people care so much about this nonsense and don't put all that energy into making photographs. if they put 1/2 that
negative energy into something productive we'd have more iconic images and fewer iconic cameras ...

 

[E. von Hoegh]

It's important to distinguish between the cameras (except for abominations such as the Hermes) and those who use them. A Leicaphool can be very annoying and is to be avoided whenever possible; but I have no problems with those who use Leica gear for it's very real positive attributes.

 

[blockend]

when you are the original 35mm camera company and your name is iconic.

There were a number of 35mm cameras before the Leica

 

[removed account4]

There were a number of 35mm cameras before the Leica

In that cAse an early 35mm camera

 

[BrianVS]

This thread originally started with the new Leica Thambar 90/2.2 being priced at $6500. Which seems insane.
Then I look at what some sellers want for some lenses based on production numbers alone, the British lenses just discussed being some of them.

A couple of other lenses that are insanely priced these days- the Simlar 5cm F1.5 in LTM has some sellers asking upwards of $2000. Maybe 3500 of these made, I got mine with a Leotax and Canon 85/2 for $650 about 10 years ago. I put a lot of work into doing a CLA on mine, sold the Canon lens for $200. "It's a collector's lens", meaning that it's an interesting optical design- but not a great performer. The 1950s Voigtlander 50/1.5 Nokton is another lens that commands a premium these days when you could but the lens on a Prominent for ~$300 a few years ago. It's a good double-Gauss, but not as good as a Zeiss Opton 50/1.5 Sonnar. And the filter size that it uses- same as a Polaroid 180. The Summarit is better than the reputation once cleaned of haze and when you realize it is optimized for F2.8. I modified 2 of them for best performance at F1.5. The Leica Xenon- also better than the rep if you find one with clean glass. Best vintage lenses for the price- Canon. The Canon 50/1.4 with perfect glass and ex+ cosmetics: $170 this month. Better than the 50/1.5 Nokton Prominent that some sellers want 10x that price.

 

[faberryman]

The Canon 50/1.4 with perfect glass and ex+ cosmetics: $170 this month. Better than the 50/1.5 Nokton Prominent that some sellers want 10x that price.

Price and quality are not necessarily related.

 

[BrianVS]

I've paid a premium for a lens that is rare, and has meaning to me. The Nikkor-SC 5cm F1.5 in Leica mount, maybe 300 made- David Douglas Duncan used it in Korea for "This is War". I bought one for $1500 with an early Canon III on the back of it. Then got a 1st edition "This is War" to go with it. The lens was near perfect, I CLA'd the Canon- also very nice. About 15x what I paid for the Nikkor-SC 5cm F1.4, performance is comparable. Again- a collector's lens.

Dead Link Removed

Also bought the Nikkor-QC 13.5cm F4, $600- about 6x what the 13.5cm F3.5 goes for- about the same performance. Maybe 600 made. Performance is as good as the Zeiss 13.5cm F4, which I got for $80 and converted to Leica mount using a $40 Jupiter-11 mount. So "Rare" commands a price premium. It's different from just "old". Many of the lenses going for ridiculous amounts are not rare, they are just old, and not as good as the reputation that has sprung up to justify the money being spent on them.
When I look at what some sellers want for the Nokton and the Simlar, or the Amotol, or the Canon 50/0.95- I wonder if there is anyone naive enough to pay those kinds of prices. If there are- they'll be ordering the Thambar.

 

[faberryman]

Then I look at what some sellers want for the Nokton and the Simlar, or the Amotol, or the Canon 50/0.95- I wonder if there is anyone naive enough to pay those kinds of prices. If there are- they'll be ordering the Thambar.

I don't think it is naivete. It's another affliction.

 

[BrianVS]

I agree- but I was trying to be nice...

Over the last 10 years my camera and lens collection has been self-sustaining. Doing custom lens conversions paid for most of the purchases, or buying/repairing/selling- "self-sustaining". The days of $50 Jupiter-3 s, $70 Summicron Collapsibles, $60 Summitars, $125 Summarits, $80 Canon 50/1.5 s, $200 Canon 50/0.95s seems to be over. But in the last month- $99 Canon 50/1.8, the already mentioned $170 Canon 50/1.4, Minolta Chiyoko lenses- there are lots of inexpensive alternatives to overpriced lenses. Also picked up a rare Canon 5cm f2 for $50 and a $50 "needed work" Canon 50/1.9 at a camera show. If you have the chance to attend them- lots of bargains.

 

[faberryman]

I agree- but I was trying to be nice...

Actually I had something entirely different in mind.

 

[chip j]

My friend got his Chinese 50mm 1.1 today--what an act! Comes w/white gloves & premium packaging--$369 shipped. F-stops don't click, though.

 

[BrianVS]

Well- the affliction that I have is much less expensive than buying a new car every few years, and the value of my lenses seems to go up- not down. Newer Leica lenses seem to fetch 75% or better on the used market, compare that with the price of an SLR zoom lens sold after a few years. I remember when the Nikkor 80~200/4.5Ai sold for $800, in 1978 dollars. Picked up one for $40. I took it apart, relubed it, quite nice now. My affliction is I like to take things apart to see how they work and why they were designed in a certain way, have ever since I was 6. But- at 60, much better getting them back together.

 

[BrianVS]

My friend got his Chinese 50mm 1.1 today--what an act! Comes w/white gloves & premium packaging--$369 shipped. F-stops don't click, though.

White Gloves! I'm jealous! That is a nice touch. Mine did not include the gloves. I wonder if the Ebay seller added that touch.
Nikon used to include a very cool Green Cloth with their original finders, ~1960.
The 7Artisans 50/1.1- add that to the less expensive lens list, about the same as a used 50 or 55 F1.2 SLR lens.

Bet this lens would fetch more than $30 on Ebay- a 5-element 5cm F2.8 Xenar, fully coated optics, 1940s. I took it apart- Xenars usually have 4 elements, this one is a "Xenar Special" made for a short amount of time. Rare- found at a camera show for $30.

Scheider Xenar 5cm F2.8 by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr

Hacked into RF coupled Leica mount. See- I learned to put things together...

 

[darkosaric]

Leica is only one manufacturer, but they seem to get 99% of the attention.

I am wondering why is that. For example if somebody started a thread that Zeiss is selling 85mm Otus lens for Nikon for overpriced 3000 euros, and that here we don't speak about photography any more - for sure that thread would not be so emotional and long as this one.

 

[removed account4]

Price and quality are not necessarily related.

maybe but one knows that people think if someone has an expensive camera and/or lens
that #1 makes them a better photographer, #2 makes their photographs better too
and people believe if they have an expensive camera that somehow they will be better too
i have heard arguments that better cameras allow a person to fight less with their equipment
and they are easier to use more ergonomically kind so who knows maybe it is true.
i wish i could afford an expensive camera cause my photographs and photography could
use an edge..i do have a camera and lens owned by someone famous and unfortunately it
fights me over what photographs to take, kind of like the red shoes and the dancer

 

[Craig75]

I shot with the Cooke Amotal 5cm F2 in Leica mount on loan to me- a good lens, comparable with the coated Summitar.
Had swirlies like a fast double-Gauss.
The price of the lens on Ebay is several times that of a Summitar, and the Summitar is at least double the Minolta Chiyoko 5cm F2. I picked up the latter lens for ~$175 or so, mint condition. It is hard-coated, Rigid Mount, 43mm filters, and the same optical block diagram as the Summitar. I have two Summitars- the Minolta is better.

Whats the most "exotic" leica mount camera and lens ?

And whats the best value v quality mount camera and lens? Id like something to shoot in africa on street and was going to take my contax g but i keep feeling dust and/or high temperatures might kill it so something small robust and cheap in leica mount is probably more sensible (not a fan of slrs in street)

Sorry to pick your brains but im on the precipise of the rabbithole now after reading your posts!

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

Whats the most "exotic" leica mount camera and lens ?

And whats the best value v quality mount camera and lens? Id like something to shoot in africa on street and was going to take my contax g but i keep feeling dust and/or high temperatures might kill it so something small robust and cheap in leica mount is probably more sensible (not a fan of slrs in street)

Sorry to pick your brains but im on the precipise of the rabbithole now after reading your posts!

There's always the Leica CL/Minolta CLE, for that kind of thing. It's small, has a meter that uses a battery but is otherwise mechanical, takes Leica M mount lenses.

 

[BrianVS]

Whats the most "exotic" leica mount camera and lens ?

And whats the best value v quality mount camera and lens? Id like something to shoot in africa on street and was going to take my contax g but i keep feeling dust and/or high temperatures might kill it so something small robust and cheap in leica mount is probably more sensible (not a fan of slrs in street)

Sorry to pick your brains but im on the precipise of the rabbithole now after reading your posts!

I would select a Canon P- combined VF/RF, parallax corrected framelines, and stainless steel shutter curtains. The modern LTM mount Voigtlander 50/1.5 Nokton ASPH works beautifully with it. The camera and lens would be under $500. A Canon 50/1.8 chrome mount is a safe bet, goes for under $150- so camera and lens would be under $300. For a wide-angle, the modern 35/1.7 Ultron Asph in LTM, or the vintage Canon 35/2.8- same formula as the Summaron. For a short telephoto- a coated Elmar 9cm F4 in LTM is under $100, the Canon 100/3.5- under $150 or so. The Canon has framelines for the 35/50/100 built in.

 

[Craig75]

I would select a Canon P- combined VF/RF, parallax corrected framelines, and stainless steel shutter curtains. The modern LTM mount Voigtlander 50/1.5 Nokton ASPH works beautifully with it. The camera and lens would be under $500. A Canon 50/1.8 chrome mount is a safe bet, goes for under $150- so camera and lens would be under $300. For a wide-angle, the modern 35/1.7 Ultron Asph in LTM, or the vintage Canon 35/2.8- same formula as the Summaron. For a short telephoto- a coated Elmar 9cm F4 in LTM is under $100, the Canon 100/3.5- under $150 or so. The Canon has framelines for the 35/50/100 built in.

Oh that is good value. Good tip

 

[Craig75]

There's always the Leica CL/Minolta CLE, for that kind of thing. It's small, has a meter that uses a battery but is otherwise mechanical, takes Leica M mount lenses.

I love that camera. Really pretty and small. Im expecting some crowd scenes /demos (although hopefully i will be proved wrong) so i want a 90mm - short base going to trip it up for focusing?

 

[BrianVS]

The CL has framelines for 90mm, and I have used the 90/4 Elmar and 90/2.8 Tele-Elmarit with it. At F4- no problems.

For the Leica CL- the Canon 50/1.5 is fast, and small. Fits in the pouch case made for the camera and 40/2. The 50/1.5 is a Sonnar design, and is smaller than the 50/1.8 Canon.

leica_cl2 by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr