MattKing
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When the prices pass what it would cost to make them new now, it will be time to start worrying.
What effing universe is this?
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Is Cosina still around?
MattKing
Moderator
Not really, unless they mothballed the equipment they were using.
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I used to buy brass lenses from time to time ...real junkers for like IDK 20-30$ to shoot with my speed graphic because well, they were cheep and no one wanted them..
I'll just say they cost a bit more now
...Google books has scanned many back issues of Popular Photography and you can browse the ads to see what cameras sold for when they were new. For example this link should go to June 1984, the B&H ad is on page 158: https://books.google.com/books?id=t...ular photography&pg=PA158#v=onepage&q&f=false
In 1984, a Nikon FM2 body cost $195, the FE was $175, FE was $205, and FA was $400 (wow!) Add $45 for a 50/1.8 series E lens. Inflation is a factor of 2.53x from 1984 to 2020. I also looked up a 1981 ad, a chrome FM body was $174, FE was $238, and black was $18 extra. Inflation is 2.89x from 1981 to 2020.
This means that the FM body in 1981 and the FM2 body in 1984 both cost about $500 new in 2020 dollars. It was likely more if you bought from the local retailer rather than mail-order. My first slr, a Yashica FX-3 with 50mm/2 lens was about $150 in 1980 or 81, so $450 in today's dollars (wow!) Used prices have gone up from near-throwaway to merely inexpensive (a working FX-3 probably still doesn't cost very much).
Maybe if used film bodies crept up to near $300-500 in today's dollars it would make sense for a manufacturer to re-enter the film SLR market, but not when used bodies cost 1/5 of what new ones would.
Most people think of classic mechanical cameras when they think of film SLRs. It has been pointed out that a DSLR manufacturer could pretty easily revert the DSLR into an electronic film SLR if they wanted - that is, it would take a lot less work for Nikon or their counterparts to retool a DSLR into the New N90 than to retool for the New FM. The N90, by the way, still goes for pizza-money on the used market, so there isn't much incentive for them to do that either.
In 1984, a Nikon FM2 body cost $195, the FE was $175, FE was $205, and FA was $400 (wow!) Add $45 for a 50/1.8 series E lens. Inflation is a factor of 2.53x from 1984 to 2020. I also looked up a 1981 ad, a chrome FM body was $174, FE was $238, and black was $18 extra. Inflation is 2.89x from 1981 to 2020.
This means that the FM body in 1981 and the FM2 body in 1984 both cost about $500 new in 2020 dollars. It was likely more if you bought from the local retailer rather than mail-order. My first slr, a Yashica FX-3 with 50mm/2 lens was about $150 in 1980 or 81, so $450 in today's dollars (wow!) Used prices have gone up from near-throwaway to merely inexpensive (a working FX-3 probably still doesn't cost very much).
Maybe if used film bodies crept up to near $300-500 in today's dollars it would make sense for a manufacturer to re-enter the film SLR market, but not when used bodies cost 1/5 of what new ones would.
Most people think of classic mechanical cameras when they think of film SLRs. It has been pointed out that a DSLR manufacturer could pretty easily revert the DSLR into an electronic film SLR if they wanted - that is, it would take a lot less work for Nikon or their counterparts to retool a DSLR into the New N90 than to retool for the New FM. The N90, by the way, still goes for pizza-money on the used market, so there isn't much incentive for them to do that either.
The thing that gets me is that items that were very undesirable 20+ years ago are now in fashion.......eg Pentax 50mm f1.7 lens the Nikon E series 1.8 lenses they were almost give away items they were so common
most camera shops had a row of undesirable Pentax MG’s with a 50 1.7 for $50 or a Nikon EM with a E series 50 1.8 for $60
most camera shops had a row of undesirable Pentax MG’s with a 50 1.7 for $50 or a Nikon EM with a E series 50 1.8 for $60
But if Nikon makes the FM again today they can't sell them for $500 and make money.
OP
OP
In order to fund the purchase of some 645 gear, I listed a Yashica 635 on eBay. After watching the listing for a few days, I couldn't bring myself to part with it so I ended the listing. I then decided that I had two 35mm bodies (F100 & F5) and didn't need both, so I listed the F5 on Sunday. I just withdrew that listing as well. I absolutely DO NOT want to have to re-buy this gear at a later time at higher prices, and I may not use them regularly, or at all, but having them and not using them is better than wanting to use them and not having them, or worse, not being able to afford them.
OP
OP
No... everyone wants gear that youtubers tell them they want.
Sometimes I do regret having sold my F100. Taking photos of my pets with AF would be so much easier. I had originally bought the F100 for my kids, but they are teens now and as such so much more difficult to convince be in front of my lens.
But then I remember I hated having to deal with AA batteries, so I partially don't regret my decision (just partially though...
)Sometimes quality gear and what youtubers want are the same thing.
Yup. YouTube and Instagram influencers are driving demand for specific cameras - and they’re definitely not all quality manual cameras. Prices for some luxury point and shoot cameras (Contax T2 and T3?) have gone into the crazy stupid zone.
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TheFlyingCamera
Membership Council
Contax camera bodies are now quite affordable for the most part. The lenses are back into crazy territory (if you're looking for their fast primes) because people have gone nuts using them with adapters on DSLRs/Mirrorless cameras. And you would like them very much. The RX, for example, had the ergonomics done by Porsche Design. It's a VERY comfortable camera to use day in and day out. And it has one bell/whistle that I found very useful - you can turn on or off the ability to display the current focus point relative to the depth of field of your currently selected aperture in the viewfinder. It makes hyperfocal calculating very easy. Or there's the RTS III - it's a big, heavy camera, but you won't notice that if you're used to your Mamiya 645. It has three features that really set it apart - the vacuum film plane, which pulls the film perfectly flat at the moment of exposure (I know some people say it really doesn't do anything, but I felt like my shots taken with my RTS III are sharper than stuff I did with any other 35mm), the ceramic film pressure plate (it's smoother than metal film pressure plates, and works in conjunction with the vacuum for better sharpness and smoother film transport), and it also has TTL flash metering for non-dedicated flash units. Very useful if you're shooting in the studio with mono-lights or a strobe pack with only PC cord synchronization. And you can pop the flash without using a frame of film to do the test, which is good - no waste.
When Chris Hemsworth says, "Digital is dead. Film is where it's at." I rejoice. He and his 45million + instagram followers dwarfs anything Youtube can do. He shoots with a Contax T2 camera. And yes, while this sends that camera's price into orbit, it makes me realize that for another 5 years years film photography will be in a good place. I don't want a Contax T2, although I bet it is a really a great camera, but I want Kodak et al. to sell film by the truckloads.
On the positive side as availability of used gear dries up there may be enough of a market for Nikon, Pentax, Canon, or Cosina to retool for film camera production. I dont have access to the marketing information, but a guess is that mid level all manual or a AF bodies as shutters, AF system, and metering from an existing Digital camera can be used. Might cost too much to reinvent a all machinal shutter.
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Press cameras are yet to become hip. You can find Spotmatics for very good prices. Anything outside of NikonCanonOlympusEtc is going to be pretty cheap.
At the end of the day you have people wanting to buy an increasingly dwindling supply of cameras. So prices will go up. In 2012 the going price for an FM2n was £100, I bought one. Then sold it for £50 more in 2014. Last year bought one back for £250.
If you want silly just have a look for XPan and Contax 645 prices. The Contax has been at stupid prices for years now, the Hasselblad has probably picked up almost 1k in the last two years, I remember seeing minty ones for £1500 2-3 years back. Good luck finding a working one for under £2k now.
I used to buy and sell stuff non-stop for no loss or even a bit of profit. Now I just hold on to things and really think before I buy. Thankfully lenses are stable.
I really do regret selling my Rollei 2.8FX though, it is unaffordable to get one today, actually it is impossible to find one.
If you want silly just have a look for XPan and Contax 645 prices. The Contax has been at stupid prices for years now, the Hasselblad has probably picked up almost 1k in the last two years, I remember seeing minty ones for £1500 2-3 years back. Good luck finding a working one for under £2k now.
I used to buy and sell stuff non-stop for no loss or even a bit of profit. Now I just hold on to things and really think before I buy. Thankfully lenses are stable.
I really do regret selling my Rollei 2.8FX though, it is unaffordable to get one today, actually it is impossible to find one.
OP
OP
...and while I'm at it. WHAT is with all the cameras being in Japan?
Current ebay listings for 6x6 cameras - 1,104. US only listing 202. That means that over 2/3's of the used cameras on ebay in this format are outside of US borders.
Current ebay listings for 6x6 cameras - 1,104. US only listing 202. That means that over 2/3's of the used cameras on ebay in this format are outside of US borders.
There wouldn't be sufficient market for new film camera at reasonable cost i.e $500 or so.
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Because back when everybody was dumping their analog equipment on eBay it was Japan buying them up. If you are as market savvy as you profess you would know this.
Now, let's talk about the interesting part of your post, the elephant in the room so to speak. How was your night as an aliens boy toy? LOL!!!
OP
OP
It was great! They were less aggressive than I expected them to be, and they spoke softly to me which put me at ease.
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Strange things happen on boats.
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