What do you use to wash your RA-4 prints?

[Chan Tran]

I currently wash my RA-4 print in the drum. I filled the drum (opened) with water then dump the water out. I do this several times for each print. I think I am wasting water and yet not doing a thorough wash. I wonder what you guys use to wash prints?

 

[Nick Zentena]

I wash with the drum rolling. Two passes that way then the prints get dumped into a tray with running water. After a while I remove them to dry.

 

[davetravis]

For my Ilfochromes, I remove the print from the drum by filling it completely with water. Then I wash it under running water in the tray that fits the size. And when the tray fills, I dump it out and let it fill again, about 3 minutes total. I think one problem with washing while still in the drum is that you won't properly wash the back side of the print.
Good luck.

 

[Photo Engineer]

I wash my prints for 2 mins in the drum at 100 F, then remove them to a large holding tray held roughly at 70 deg F. They are held until a session is complete, usually between 20 and 40 prints (8x10 sheets) and then I dump the holding tray and rewash for about 2 - 5 mins with 80 deg F water.

When you dump the holding water, you can see a reddish color in the water to additional blix removed in the tray. Even a nearly constant drum wash for 2' or even 3' is not enough to totally remove the blix.

PE

 

[pentaxuser]

I wash my prints for 2 mins in the drum at 100 F, then remove them to a large holding tray held roughly at 70 deg F. They are held until a session is complete, usually between 20 and 40 prints (8x10 sheets) and then I dump the holding tray and rewash for about 2 - 5 mins with 80 deg F water.

When you dump the holding water, you can see a reddish color in the water to additional blix removed in the tray. Even a nearly constant drum wash for 2' or even 3' is not enough to totally remove the blix.

PE

PE. Currently my process is initially similar to yours but I do two drum washes at about 30-45 secs each. I then transfer the print to a colour brightener/stabiliser slot in my Nova for at least a minute.

Both Nova and Ilfospeed produce this product. Nova calls its product "Waterless Wash, claiming that you can transfer the print straight from the blix and remove after a minute. Of course this exhausts the waterless wash more quickly than using a water wash first.

I have now been colour printing for about 2 years and so far haven't seen any deterioration in the prints I have done. However can I still expect some deterioration in the future or does the combination of a one minute double wash and then the waterless wash eliminate all blix?

This could be extremely important for prints that need keeping. As a matter of interest what do mini-labs do? I imagine that for speed that their process must be quite quick.

pentaxuser

 

[Photo Engineer]

PE. Currently my process is initially similar to yours but I do two drum washes at about 30-45 secs each. I then transfer the print to a colour brightener/stabiliser slot in my Nova for at least a minute.

Both Nova and Ilfospeed produce this product. Nova calls its product "Waterless Wash, claiming that you can transfer the print straight from the blix and remove after a minute. Of course this exhausts the waterless wash more quickly than using a water wash first.

I have now been colour printing for about 2 years and so far haven't seen any deterioration in the prints I have done. However can I still expect some deterioration in the future or does the combination of a one minute double wash and then the waterless wash eliminate all blix?

This could be extremely important for prints that need keeping. As a matter of interest what do mini-labs do? I imagine that for speed that their process must be quite quick.

pentaxuser

With insufficient wash, you retain silver hypo complexes in the coating just as you do in B&W materials. You retain other chemicals as well, including color developing agent and a host of Ferric and Ferrous complexes. I cannot speculate what effect this would have on the print given enough time, humidity and other agents, but they probably would do no good.

I suspect I know what is in the waterless wash, as I devised such a solution over 20 years ago at EK, but it was not placed in production.

I prefer a good thorough wash. If I wanted to use a stabilzer, it would be a pH 4.5 buffered citric acid solution with some benzoic acid and some sorbitol as preservatives. I would not add a brightener. It tends to make the blacks turn bluish in daylight. As brighteners decompose with age, they yellow.

PE

 

[Nick Zentena]

IIRC Fuji has a couple of different washless C-41 type processes. Would this have similar lifespans to normal C-41 processed film?

 

[Matt5791]

I am only just about to get into colour printing, but I am planning to use the Nova waterless wash, which I currently use for black and white.

It is normally used in mini-lab machines and this is what it was formulated for - so I'm told.

I will be using it in the Durst printo too. All I need now is a dryer module and my workload will be cut down even more.

Matt

 

[Mick Fagan]

Matt, I would think twice about obtaining the Printo dryer module.

Nothing wrong with it, it's just that you then are restricted to a very short 45 second wash in one bath or 90 seconds if you run two wash baths.

I thought about getting a dryer module when I purchased the Printo, apart from the outlandish cost, I decided that it limited my paper throughput capability.

I have run RA4 and B&W material through the Printo. I let all of my material drop into a 12x16" tray where they stay for a few minutes, it's filled with water.

From there I transfer to another tray also filled with water where the prints usually sit for about 10-15 minutes.

The final rinse is through another tray, which is hand agitated with slow running water for about a minute. I then pop everything into a dedicated 12" wide paper dryer.

Keeping your options open with the Printo, allows you to vary your final wash/drying situation, it also saves money!

Mick.

 

[pentaxuser]

I am only just about to get into colour printing, but I am planning to use the Nova waterless wash, which I currently use for black and white.

It is normally used in mini-lab machines and this is what it was formulated for - so I'm told.

I will be using it in the Durst printo too. All I need now is a dryer module and my workload will be cut down even more.

Matt

Matt. I am probably paranoic about the use of water in the darkroom. I have a 8x10 separate Nova slot washer which I don't use as much as I should. I tend to do one wash in the drum for at least 30 secs and then use the fourth slot in My Nova Quad for the waterless wash. See PE's comments on waterless washes. OK this may be his ultra careful approach based on a lifetime of being an EK professional but if I had a print I wanted to keep and display for many years then a straight wash may be safestbased on his comments. I really need to check what the Nova slot uses in say a 2 min wash. I suspect not a lot. There is a form of regulator in that too much water from the tap passing through the bottom would lead to it overflowing. I suspect that as long as there is a continuous flow from the bottom to the top which doesn't overflow the slot then it's washing OK. I'll use the garden hose merrily to wash the car or hose the drive occasionally and this probably uses more gallons in a few minutes than a full night session washing prints, especially if I were to place two prints in the slot at a time which using the special print holders provided is perfectly OK.

Even in the UK I suspect that the temp from the cold tap is OK for washing in the height of summer. For the rest of the year and assuming you have a hot and cold tap you can connect them into a Y formation with hozelock type connectors.Then you can regulate the temp. Of course this could use quite a lot of hot water but again I suspect that we heat a lot more water in the hot tank in the airing cupboard in the course of the central heating cycle than we actually need for normal household activities.

Incidentally for RA4 drying I have found that the ambient air dryers which have a 4 layer horizontal rack slotted into a box open on one side are fine and quite cheap secondhand. Each print dries in a matter of minutes and the prints are dry and ready for removal before the 4 layer rack is full up. OK I don't have a Printo, only a CPE but I'd be surprised if the rack dryers can keep up.

If slot washing is the limiting factor for speed and volume of prints then there is always the large horizontal holding trays which takes several prints each and into which water could be run and left to overflow the sides. Depends on ovearall sink space, of course

I hope this helps.

pentaxuser