what do I need for IR?

Christopher Walrath · Jun 19, 2009

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I was thinking about getting some Rollei IR film for freestyle. I have HC110 and some Arista film developer. Would I need any different? What about handling, filtration, anything an IR newb would need to know when I do it.

keithwms · Jun 20, 2009

I use two different filters with the Rollei: a 72 and a #87. You might also like to experiment with a deep red filter. My typical filter factors are:

red: 2-4 stops
72: 5-8 stops
87: 10-14 stops

The ranges just depend on the time of the day and the season, altitude, what kind of clouds are present, etc. What I had for breakfast, the colour of my socks etc. Bracket like nuts until you get the hang of it. If shooting sheet film then shoot two of everything, develop the first, and use that result to amend the development time for the second.

Developers.... well I haven't used the HC110, I use ID11 (D76) 1+1 all the time and have no complaints. I have also used xtol and perceptol with it, no problems.

The film can be loaded and unloaded in subdued light e.g. under a jacket if you're outside. There are no other special concerns about handling and the film keeps well for many months on the shelf.

Consider also the new Rollei superpan, which I like very much and which has quite similar IR sensitivity.

keithwms · Jun 20, 2009

P.S. Though it is a near-IR film, there is still some IR refocus with the Rollei. Just use the IR markings... or remember your hyperfocal technique and stop down a bit if necessary... or use an apo lens. I find no refocus with the apo process lenses e.g. the process nikkors nor the apo Mamiya lenses in 645 and 6x7 format (I use the 200 apo and 300 apo for 645 and the 210 KL apo for the rb67 in 6x7/6x8).

RobertV · Jun 20, 2009

I use Heliopan RG715nm filters (88A) and compensate for 5 F stops.

You can't get any 'wood' effect with this film with a standard red (25) or dark red (29) filter. Hence my #88A. A Hoya 72R is also possible.
I give the focus a small correction to the IR marker.

Developer: Use a semi-compensating developer because the precise IR exposure is not possible. I use AM74/RHS but there is no reason for a successfull HC-110 development.

Yashica Mat 124-G + Heliopan Bay I RG715nm filter. 1/30S f=4,0 A TLR is a nice camera when doing IR photography because the filter is opague.
The advantage of the Rollei IR820/400 is that you can shoot handheld although a tripod is often necessary to use.

archphoto · Jun 20, 2009

Holland in wintertime........ Looks good !

Peter

bobwysiwyg · Jun 20, 2009

RobertV said:
You can't get any 'wood' effect with this film

Another IR newb question. What is 'wood' affect?

RobertV · Jun 20, 2009

Another IR newb question. What is 'wood' affect?

The reaction of the IR light on the follikel and chlorofyl of the (green) trees and plants.
Above example looks a bit on snow but it's the 'wood' effect of the green plants on the IR light which is only monitored by the IR film.

The filter is completly blocking the visual light so the IR light is only on the film emulsion.
Because the breaking index of IR light is slightly different then visual light you have to correct for the focus.

Here some more IR examples:
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and on 35mm:
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Some info:
http://www.fotohuisrovo.nl/documentatie/Schroeders_N_P_Infrarot.pdf

and an interesting web site about IR photography:
http://www.vividlight.com/Articles/2915.htm

Best regards,

Robert

bobwysiwyg · Jun 20, 2009

Robert,

Thank you for the explanation and the links. I found the one particularly interesting about the often overlooked little light (IR) leaks such as the date imprinting window, etc.

I definitely have to give IR a try.

RobertV · Jun 20, 2009

Leaks in the window you will only have with high sensitive IR film like Kodak HIE (>900nm). But this film is discontinued.
If you look at the actual films Efke IR820, Rollei IR820/400 and Rollei Super Pan 200, Ilford SFX you can load and unload in subdue light. Without a filter it's an expensive panchromatic film.

All actual films except the Rollei IR820/400 you need a tripod because you're working in the range iso 1,5 - 6.
Best cameras are TLR, Range Finder because you have clear vision by the view finder while a SLR is very difficult to focus (if not impossible) with an opague IR filter.
I am working with above Yashica Mat 124-G TLR and a Leica M7 which are both very easy for infra red photography.

The rest is very simple: just a small correction for the focus and choose a subject with trees and green plants. Also the development of above films is rather standard. Nothing special just because you never know the amount of IR light in the atmosphere use a semi-compensating developer. To check your development: Always make a picture without filter so that you're able to check the E.I. and your developing.

With above instructions and common sense everybody is able to shoot on IR film with success.

Q.G. · Jun 20, 2009

archphoto said:
Holland in wintertime........ Looks good !

Doesn't look like wintertime.
And i bet it's not Holland either.

If we would write Wood effect, and not 'wood' effect, it would avoid the suggestion that the effect's relation with foliage is why it is called that.

RobertV · Jun 20, 2009

Well, it's the Stella Polaris windmill in Demen, the Netherlands and it's used to live in. A pretty remarkable "house".
This photo has been made about 3 weeks ago.

Here a detail of the top with the name. Made on Efke 25 in Beutler.

bobwysiwyg · Jun 20, 2009

RobertV said:
Best cameras are TLR, Range Finder because you have clear vision by the view finder while a SLR is very difficult to focus (if not impossible) with an opague IR filter.

Couldn't one determine/estimate the exposure using an SLR, focus+adjust for IR without the filter, then put the filter on for the actual shot?

Thanks for the film and development tips.

RobertV · Jun 20, 2009

Yes, you can, but every time you have to unscrew and screw your filter again.
One of the reasons HIE was populair for SLR useres because you could generate the Wood effect with a simple red filter with this film and here you still have a pretty good sight by the SLR finder.

In this way a TLR or rangefinder is the best camera when using the opague IR filters together with the actual IR films available.

My TLR: Yashica Mat 124-G with the bay I Yellow and IR RG715nm filters:

stradibarrius · Jun 20, 2009

Are you setting the ISO on the camera at 25? If the ISO is set at 25 can I just use the meter readings to set exposure?

RobertV · Jun 20, 2009

You could do that but I am using my handheld Gossen Lunasix-3 because the EV is much wider and you can set from iso 0,8 - iso 25000.
For the Rollei IR 820/400 I set the meter to iso 12 and for the Rollei Super Pan 200 iso 6.

You never know the E.I. exactly because you can not measure IR light with the meter. I assume it's the same like visible light but of course this is not the case.

Here are the data sheets for both Rollei films and the developing table:

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Both films are made by Agfa Gevaert in Belgium for the Rollei-Maco company.
Rollei High Speed/AM74 is a good fitting semi compensating developer for these films however each semi compensating developer is suitable for IR photography.

It's not rocket science. Once you have to do it and have the same experience of this interesting field of photography. You have to deal with a few practical "problems".

ntenny · Jun 20, 2009

stradibarrius said:
Are you setting the ISO on the camera at 25? If the ISO is set at 25 can I just use the meter readings to set exposure?

Roughly, sure, but if you're metering visual light, the reading won't really reflect the amount of available IR light very accurately. It varies with time of day, for one thing---at morning and evening, there's more IR relative to the amount of visual light than at midday. (Stands to reason---same mechanism that makes sunsets and sunrises red.) Visible light scatters more than IR, so if you meter something that's lit indirectly, it will read brighter in the visible spectrum than in IR.

But like everything else in photography, it comes down to "think about it and understand how light works". It's just that in this case it's light you can't see.

I've always used the Efke IR film rather than Rollei---the Efke has more extended sensitivity, I believe---but I found it to be *much* easier than I was afraid of when I first picked it up. You have to guess at exposures a little more than you normally would, which means you should bracket and experiment to figure out what works in practice. If you ask me, that's half the fun.

Metering *through* the filter sometimes works, too. Different meters probably have different levels of sensitivity to IR, though, and again some experimentation is called for.

TLRs are great IR cameras, not just because you don't have to look through the taking lens, but because the leaf shutter is easier to handhold at slow shutter speeds as compared to an SLR. Leaf-shutter rangefinders should have the same benefit.

-NT

stradibarrius · Jun 20, 2009

Thanks for that now another way to ask the same question...when you load the Rollei IR400 film in your camera what value do you set the camera ISO...400???
For the sake of this discussion let's say the filter is a 4 stop filter.

Christopher Walrath · Jun 20, 2009

Man, this is better than I thought it would be. Keep it goin', guys.

jim appleyard · Jun 20, 2009

Q.G. said:
Doesn't look like wintertime.
And i bet it's not Holland either.

If we would write Wood effect, and not 'wood' effect, it would avoid the suggestion that the effect's relation with foliage is why it is called that.

How about "Would Effect"?

Toffle · Jun 21, 2009

jim appleyard said:
How about "Would Effect"?

Or perhaps, "Would affect." (as I'm sure it does... )

RobertV · Jun 21, 2009

when you load the Rollei IR400 film in your camera what value do you set the camera ISO...400???
For the sake of this discussion let's say the filter is a 4 stop filter.

Yes you can: e.g. metering 1/250 s for f=11 then the correction with your 4 F stop filter factor: 1/15S for f=11 (or 1/60S for f=5,6 when you would do a handheld shot)

But for (I.R.) landscapes you're normally using W.A. lenses so that the correction of the focus is not critical within the D.O.F. )

what do I need for IR?

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