What changes adding hypo clearing agent to selenium toner?

[pentaxuser]

In The Print, copyright 1983, in a footnote in the section on toning, Ansel Adams comments "...I have recently been advised by scientists at Eastman Kodak that there may be no advantage to mixing Hypo Clearing Agent, instead of plain water, with the selenium toner. However, since this was previously considered the preferred method, I am continuing with the use of Hypo Clearing Agent; I have used this system for many years with apparent success."

David

Doesn't that comment by AA neatly sums up the kind of inherently conservative stance that most still take on matters photographic, namely "It works for me so why risk a change"

This persists even if there is no evidence that the procedure is not the only way or in fact is unnecessary.

pentaxuser

 

[DREW WILEY]

Since I have been using TF4, and now TF5, Archival fixers for a long time, there is no reason for me to even have HCA around. Decades ago, when I did briefly use the AA method, there was no visual or permanence difference from what I have since obtained using KRST without it. This whole topic sounds to me more like a matter for archeologists to decide; it's rather arcane and outdated with respect to present options, if it ever was valid advice to begin with, which I doubt.

 

[BHuij]

It's a good point @pentaxuser - I have myself been simultaneously far too eager to spend time testing new whiz-bang products and techniques to see if they make a difference (I've been contemplating trying out FX-55 to see how it compares to Mytol, even though I'm already super happy with Mytol, and FX-55 is probably the least different possible developer from Mytol without actually just being Mytol).

And I also am still using sodium sulfite as a wash aid even though I standardized on TF-5 fixer years ago and theoretically don't need it. I could argue that I'm not buying HCA, and I always keep sodium sulfite on hand anyway because it's an ingredient in various developers that I use on a regular basis. But the truth is I'm just scared if I omit the wash aid step after toning, I might accidentally be setting my prints up to degrade sooner.

 

[DREW WILEY]

I don't get it. If there's a issue with your selenium toning, either the paper hasn't been properly fixed, or you haven't washed it long enough after toning. Why even bother paying extra for TF5 if you don't trust it to do what it claims to do - simplify the whole process. What is your basis for being so paranoid about all this?

 

[BHuij]

There isn't an issue with my selenium toning. Where did you get the impression that there was one?

 

[Bill Burk]

I always transfer prints directly from second fix to toner and always have.
Staining will occur if you do this if 1) the fixation of the print is not adequate and there are non-water-soluble silver halides left in the emulsion or 2) if the fixer is too acidic. FWIW, I use Ilford Rapid Fixer or Hypam 1+9 and have never had a problem. I've also used TF-4 and Kodak Rapid Fix (print dilution). Problems with staining may occur with the stronger "film dilution" of Ilford and Kodak rapid fixers; I've never tried it. Bottom line, fix well and use a near-neutral or alkaline fixer. Or wash thoroughly before toning. That works too, it's just more time consuming.

The wash-aid step should be after fixing and a five-minute water rinse. The five-minute rinse before the wash aid is important and helps speed up washing according to Ilford. Mixing selenium toner with wash aid is wasteful if you toss the toner when the wash-aid is exhausted. If you keep the toner longer, then you don't have a wash-aid step at all. Better to do it separately and after the five-minute rinse.

I've written a lot here and over on the LF fora about keeping and replenishing selenium toner. I have two batches, one stronger, one weaker, that have been going for 10 years now. Toning is done by visual inspections and prints are removed from the toner when the desired tonal shift has been reached. When times get too slow, more stock toner solution is added to speed it back up. Amounts are not specific. Toner used this way needs to be filtered before and after use. I use regular coffee filter cones. Sometimes a batch will grow bacterial slime. If that's the case, it's better to toss it and mix fresh. I've only had that happen a time or two.

Best,

Doremus

I didn’t want my KRST to get contaminated by possibly exhausted fix so I don’t go straight from fix to toner.

I have recently changed to two bath fix, because I have had problems with one.

So the process I’m comfortable with is: dev/stop/fix bath 1/fix bath 2/wash

Then after session go back and tone/wash

 

[Bill Burk]

I don't get it. If there's a issue with your selenium toning, either the paper hasn't been properly fixed, or you haven't washed it long enough after toning. Why even bother paying extra for TF5 if you don't trust it to do what it claims to do - simplify the whole process. What is your basis for being so paranoid about all this?

I get stains all the time. Maybe not now that I’m doing two fix baths.

I used to think I don’t need two fix because I was mixing fix fresh each session and only making a few prints.

But something about one bath fix is “always” bad.

 

[DutchDarkroom]

I didn’t want my KRST to get contaminated by possibly exhausted fix so I don’t go straight from fix to toner.

I have recently changed to two bath fix, because I have had problems with one.

So the process I’m comfortable with is: dev/stop/fix bath 1/fix bath 2/wash

Then after session go back and tone/wash

Why not fix 2 after the session? Seems to me that would save some time. So dev/stop/fix/holding and after session holding/fix 2/quick wash/toner/final wash. I for one would get quite impatient if i would fix twice before making a next strip/print.