What challenges do older artists face?

ChristopherCoy · Feb 10, 2021

I'll be honest, I harbor a lot of jealousy toward younger artists. I often refer to them as "youtubers", but that term essentially incorporates anyone under the age of 30, whether they have a youtube channel or not. Now I'm only 41, so I'm betting some of you "old timers" probably feel the same about me and my generation. In fact, I'd probably put good money on it.

One of the things that I am trying to do is identify the reason's why I feel this way, and once identified, figure out a way to emotionally process it so that I can move on and perhaps learn something that they may actually be able to teach me.

In thinking about this further, one of the things I identified is that older artists face a different set of challenges than younger artists do. For instance, older artists are more likely to have more bills; i.e. mortgages, car payments, health insurance, KIDS! Whereas younger artists probably have more expendable income due to the lack of these things, which allows them more leeway for things like film and materials purchases. Another example is time. Older artists probably have full time jobs, after school programs, business travel, and other family demands. Younger artists, I'm assuming, may not have these, or may not have these constraints to the extent that older artists do.

So I'm wondering if you feel this way, and what are some of the things that you have done to overcome these challenges? What are some challenges that you've observed that older artists face, that you believe younger artists may not? If you're a younger artist, what challenges do you face that may not be perceived by older artists?

And the reverse, as an older artist, what advantages do you think we may have that a younger person may not?

darkosaric · Feb 10, 2021

I am couple of years older than you. My opinion is - if you are healthy, and your partner and kids (if you have them) are healthy - all other limits are in your head. Look at David Lynch - he did and does great work in late age, and not only in TV shows, but in many other disciplines. I have full time job, but still - that is only 40-60 hours per week, you just need to say no to other stuff that eats your free time.

Fraunhofer · Feb 10, 2021

By your definition of older, I do fall into the category (turning 45 next month) and I do have a mortgage, kids, wife, job and business travel (pre-covid). About "artist" I am not sure, let's say I am a practitioner of the dark (room) arts.

I have no idea whether younger folks have it easier or harder, I feel that it's easier for me in my forties than it was in my thirties: kids now sleep through the night, i.e. no longer are babies, job wise I have reached a point where I can say no to stuff and I have more disposable income now then 10 years ago. However, I still don't have oodles of disposable time and/or energy , basically all my photo stuff has to happen between 9pm and 1am. I do not need much sleep, which helps.

I need a project to motivate me to get and keep going, eg. my 1st covid project was to build a 8x10 enlarger and make a 30x40 print, which I did. It's a great print. Took me from March till December of last year, with many weeks not working on it at all. But I got it done.

So what I am trying to say: I do fewer things, but they are more meaningful to me. So I am not shooting 2 rolls a week, make contacts, print, file etc. Also, I try to be opportunistic, take a camera on business travel, or use the phone camera (made smaller 5x7 Pd prints from some of those) or use the 1 hour everyone is gone somewhere to setup a still life to expose 1 or 2 sheets.

I find that having ideas does not require loads of free time, but execution does (also because I am still an apprentice). So my process is to have ideas, select the one which most intrigues me and commit to it, often to the exclusion of other photographic endeavors. So focusing is important for me. Interestingly, this is also how I do it at work: I do science for a living, and there it's the same: you have lots of ideas, but need to be very selective which ones to pursue because each attempt costs serious money and time.

On age related thing, of which I am not sure if it's good or bad for making images: I have a lot more doubts about myself, the world and everything. This can be an inspiration but also can stifle initiative, depends on the day of the week, I guess.

rick shaw · Feb 10, 2021

Personally, yes, there are some challenges with health, money, etc. but photographically, creatively, and artistically, things could not be better.
I have a lot of experience to draw on and have a better grip on what is important and what is not.
I finally figured out what it is I want to say with my photography. That only took about 40 years.
I come to peace with the fact that I don't know it all, never did know it all, and in fact, know almost nothing in the grand scheme of things.
However, it is a little embarrassing to look back at all of the gear and worthless fads you chased for no apparent reason.
And so it goes...

ChristopherCoy · Feb 10, 2021

Fraunhofer said:
I find that having ideas does not require loads of free time, but execution does (also because I am still an apprentice). So my process is to have ideas.....

This was a thought provoking statement for me. I should start keeping an idea book. Getting all of my ideas out of my head may allow me to feel more free. Keeping them all in, and there are a LOT of them, gives me a sense of urgency, like if I don't hurry they'll all disappear - which we all know isn't true. If today's ideas disappear, they'll just be replaced with 4,000 new ideas tomorrow.

BrianShaw · Feb 10, 2021

I don’t think this is an age issue, per se. The older I get the more I realize that there are only 3 things that truly make a difference: clarity of thought/goal and commitment to complete that thought/goal. It’s all about focus of goals and time otherwise one ends up a swirling dervish. The third thing... confidence/skills.

An idea book is a great idea... as long as that doesn’t become just another distraction from actually accomplishing something.

p.s. like michaelr revealed... I, too, are in your “old guy” category and have had same “old guy mindset” since about age 10.

Auer · Feb 10, 2021

If youre still an artist when youre older, you did allright when you were younger.

removed account4 · Feb 10, 2021

Life is a juggling act no matter how old you are. The trick is not letting the endless and sometimes deafening static-of-life / BS derail you.

fgorga · Feb 10, 2021

Well, I am 65 and I started making photographs (with a 4x5 camera) when I was 15.

Plusses...

Being retired, I've got more time for photography.
Having offspring who finished school and moved out decades ago, I have more funds available for photography.
Having more experience, means that at my "eye" has evolved and is, hopefully, more refined.

Minuses....

I can't go has far as I used to, with as much gear as I used to, in search of subjects.
Getting up off the ground, is a lot more difficult!

Generally, it is little physical things that make life just a bit more difficult.

Case in point, last summer I "rock hopped" out into the middle of a river with tripod and camera in order to get the angle I wanted. Completely routine, no mishaps. Yet I spent the next week or so hobbling about with a pulled muscle in my leg and no clue as to how it happened. This never happened two decades ago!

fgorga · Feb 10, 2021

jnantz said:
Life is a juggling act no matter how old you are. The trick is not letting the endless and sometimes deafening static-of-life / BS derail you.

Words of great wisdom!

Darkroom317 · Feb 10, 2021

Depends on the route we take. Younger artists, if they have gone through academia, face crippling student debt. I turn 31 this year and am in my last semester of my MFA. The job market I am about to enter is saturated and at the same time crippled because of the pandemic. This is not just an artist problem but overall is an issue for my generation. Many galleries closed during the 2008 financial crisis. This never fully recovered, now even more galleries are closing further shrinking exhibition space and jobs in the art field.

Emerging artists have to fight through this saturation of artists often building their CVs and gaining exposure exposure through shelling out hundreds of dollars in call for entry fees for just the possibility of exhibiting.

TheFlyingCamera · Feb 10, 2021

When you are young, the limitations are financial. When you are old, the limitations are physical. But the truly dedicated, at any age, find ways to work around them.

eddie · Feb 10, 2021

There are also advantages to being an older artist.
At 63, I think I've been doing my best work. Having had success, I'm more confident about what I'm doing, including veering off into new territory.
I'm more financially literate than I was at 20, so I'm better able to balance my photo costs with my other financial obligations ( I haven't felt the need for GAS in many years. I've learned I can do what I want with what I have).
I think age brings patience. I'm more apt to stick with ideas longer than when I was young. Having grown up prior to the "instant gratification age" has been a positive.
Finally, though, photography is a lifetime pursuit, and one can never know it all. There's always something new to learn. It helps keep you young...

Wallendo · Feb 10, 2021

I don't really know what an "artist" is. I think of myself as an "amateur" photographer - based on its original meaning as someone who practices photography for the love of the art, not money.

I don't think younger "artists" really have it any easier. The vast majority of photography I run into these days by younger people relates to "influencer" culture. Many many "photographers" are creating nearly identical images, yet some of them make big money, and most of them don't. The people being really successful during the pandemic are those using social media as their distribution model. I have yet to find a way to get rich off of social media as a grey-haired somewhat overweight man.

If you take away social media and "influencer culture", younger artists have no real advantage over older artists. I am just thankful that my day job provides a comfortable lifestyle and resources to support way too many cameras and lenses.

JBrunner · Feb 10, 2021

For me the challenges have lessened with age, or rather, I'm much better equipped to deal with them, as perhaps all artists face similar challenges whatever their age. I have a much more mature vision, a much calmer disposition, a much better understanding of my market, a financial situation that allows me more time to work on art, insanely thick skin about my work, a blessedly divorced observers view of socio-political issues, and the mental space that allows the work to go forward. I also have the experience of real life and death, real personal loss, suffering that shoved my immature angsty idealism into the mud where it belongs.

And I've been blessed with continued good health, which is no small thing. Now, of course if I could have this older and calmer brain in a younger body, I'd take it in a second. Youth, as they say, is wasted on the young.

ChristopherCoy · Feb 10, 2021

Wallendo said:
If you take away social media and "influencer culture", younger artists have no real advantage over older artists.

That's an interesting observation, or perspective.

TheFlyingCamera · Feb 10, 2021

Darkroom317 said:
Emerging artists have to fight through this saturation of artists often building their CVs and gaining exposure exposure through shelling out hundreds of dollars in call for entry fees for just the possibility of exhibiting.

There are ways around the fee-for-exhibition banditry. Some of those opportunities are worthwhile. Many, sadly, are not. But there are resources out there for finding exhibition opportunities that do not charge a fee-for-entry. I think I have a good one bookmarked but I'd have to sort through my bookmarks on my other computer. There are of course also other venues - create your own blog, post to social media, be active in forums on social media, grow your following. What art schools fail miserably to do is include an entire semester (or more) on MARKETING. The big secret to success as an artist is marketing. Commercial photographers (wedding, portrait studios, industrial, real estate, etc) will tell you that they spend 50-75% of their business hours marketing their work, 20% administrative, and 10% or less of their time actually shooting and producing photographs. The same is probably true for professional artists, although they usually don't talk about this as openly. And that's also why the successful ones have assistants who take care of the business minutiae and send out the promotional pieces, make the gallery bookings, etc., so the artist can concentrate on making their art. I'd probably be a lot further along with my art career if I had an assistant to come in even one day a week to look through the web for calls for entry, submit the entries, and handle correspondence. Alas, I don't have the budget for such things here in the US. Once I retire to Mexico, though... I'll be able to hire a student (and pay them!) to do that stuff.

TheFlyingCamera · Feb 10, 2021

JBrunner said:
For me the challenges have lessened with age, or rather, I'm much better equipped to deal with them, as perhaps all artists face similar challenges whatever their age. I have a much more mature vision, a much calmer disposition, a much better understanding of my market, a financial situation that allows me more time to work on art, insanely thick skin about my work, a blessedly divorced observers view of socio-political issues, and the mental space that allows the work to go forward. I also have the experience of real life and death, real personal loss, suffering that shoved my immature angsty idealism into the mud where it belongs.

And I've been blessed with continued good health, which is no small thing. Now, of course if I could have this older and calmer brain in a younger body, I'd take it in a second. Youth, as they say, is wasted on the young.

Aaaah- the old saying "If I only knew then what I know now..." . Perennial victim of that here - been there, done that, have the souvenir t-shirt and mug, and the non-tax-deductible receipts to prove it.

ChristopherCoy · Feb 10, 2021

TheFlyingCamera said:
Commercial photographers (wedding, portrait studios, industrial, real estate, etc) will tell you that they spend 50-75% of their business hours marketing their work, 20% administrative, and 10% or less of their time actually shooting and producing photographs.

I will NEVER do another bridal show again as long as I live. They are the absolute WORST. Buncha bitchy women being unnecessarily "high maintenance" because they think a wedding gives them the right to act as such.

JBrunner · Feb 10, 2021

TheFlyingCamera said:
There are ways around the fee-for-exhibition banditry. Some of those opportunities are worthwhile. Many, sadly, are not. But there are resources out there for finding exhibition opportunities that do not charge a fee-for-entry. I think I have a good one bookmarked but I'd have to sort through my bookmarks on my other computer. There are of course also other venues - create your own blog, post to social media, be active in forums on social media, grow your following. What art schools fail miserably to do is include an entire semester (or more) on MARKETING. The big secret to success as an artist is marketing. Commercial photographers (wedding, portrait studios, industrial, real estate, etc) will tell you that they spend 50-75% of their business hours marketing their work, 20% administrative, and 10% or less of their time actually shooting and producing photographs. The same is probably true for professional artists, although they usually don't talk about this as openly. And that's also why the successful ones have assistants who take care of the business minutiae and send out the promotional pieces, make the gallery bookings, etc., so the artist can concentrate on making their art. I'd probably be a lot further along with my art career if I had an assistant to come in even one day a week to look through the web for calls for entry, submit the entries, and handle correspondence. Alas, I don't have the budget for such things here in the US. Once I retire to Mexico, though... I'll be able to hire a student (and pay them!) to do that stuff.

These days I spend far more time on marketing and admin than I do making photographs, and once I learned to treat my art the same way I did my commercial photography career, everything started to fall into place. The photo trips are literally a vacation. which is actually great, because my enthusiasm for getting away and creating is stronger than ever as a result.

KenS · Feb 10, 2021

ChristopherCoy said:
I'll be honest, I harbor a lot of jealousy toward younger artists. I often refer to them as "youtubers", but that term essentially incorporates anyone under the age of 30, whether they have a youtube channel or not. Now I'm only 41, so I'm betting some of you "old timers" probably feel the same about me and my generation. In fact, I'd probably put good money on it.

BIG snip

And the reverse, as an older artist, what advantages do you think we may have that a younger person may not?

At the 'ripe old age' of 80 years (of which some 65+ have been 'mainly' under the dark-cloth) I believe having "patience" is one of the main 'requirements'.. such as waiting that few minutes for the cloud 'hiding the sun' to move away (or the 'vice versa') the second might be to "look" and take the time to move a few feet from the current 'spot' and make the effort to 'compose' for a better "final image" and make but ONE exposure (or perhaps a second... 'just in case you screw up' when developing the 'first' one.

Ken

Andrew O'Neill · Feb 10, 2021

I really don't think about it. I don't think I have. I'd rather use my time and energy to make art for me.

Rick A · Feb 10, 2021

I find it rich that 40 somethings call themselves "older". Being faced with clicking 70 in a couple of months, my challenges are a bit different than when in my youth. The main issue being finances, I live on a fixed income. Travel, my partner in crime can't sit for long periods in the car, she has physical limitations that are akin to mine. I had to give up my long hikes in the mountains, my knees are shot, and I suffer PAD. I worked my tush off and raised kids, but managed to do most of what I wanted any way. As the kids grew and were capable, they got to tag along on nearly all the outings.

ChristopherCoy · Feb 10, 2021

JBrunner said:
I have a much more mature vision....

This brings up another thought.

With more life experience, do older artists face different challenges in their vision? Without the effects of external influences, do younger artists see things more clearly, or with less worry?

VinceInMT · Feb 10, 2021

ChristopherCoy said:
I'll be honest, I harbor a lot of jealousy toward younger artists.

My first reaction is to wonder if this feeling of "jealousy" extends into other areas of your life, beyond just younger artists? If so, the problem might be bigger than you think. ;-)

For myself, I am in my very-late 60s and have been a serious amateur photographer for almost 50 years. Once kids came along I lost the space that was my darkroom and the hobby went on hiatus. A move into a larger house, in another state, with room in the basement that lacked a window, allowed me to set things up but it had competition since I also had changed careers (to high school teacher) and that consumed lots of time along with distractions from my other hobbies, interests, and passions: computers, vintage cars, music, woodworking, etc.

Now the kids are long gone and I've been retired for almost 9 years. Except for my first house, I have never borrowed money for anything and when I moved I was able to pay cash for my next house so I never had a mortgage after that. We invested early and now benefit from the time value of money and, with my pension + Social Security + interest off investments, I make more money now than when I was working. I cash flowed my own college education (I had the GI Bill) as well as my wife's and both of my kids.

As for the physical side, I am in better shape now that when I was 45. I took up running at 48 and have a couple marathons behind me and still do a couple half-marathons every year so I my photography isn't inhibited by physical age.

So, yes, being older has its advantages, if one makes good choices along the way.

In 2015 I decided to go back to college and get a BFA, something totally outside my previous areas of study. In my state they give full tuition waiver to Vietnam-Era veterans and anyone over 65 so it was a no-brainer. I am 15 credits away from finishing that up. This has given be a unique perspective on the generational differences since I am older than everyone, even the professors. However, these students are extremely accepting of me and we work together quite well. I think my decades as a high school teacher helps me relate. Our approaches to art differ quite a bit. They are more into contemporary approaches and concerned with what their art says while and I am more technical and concerned with form, but art is art, right?

I think they key response is to draw from those others and not compare oneself to them. I learn as much from my younger peers as, I hope, they learn from me.

What challenges do older artists face?

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