What camera is this?

[Leksele]

Hello,
I have old folding camera with no sigh.
"Made in Germany" only.
Format 6x9. Film - 616
Lens - Schneider Xenar 120 4.5 N 307403 (I didn't find this lens in Schneider's site!)
Shutter -Compur



I didn't find it in McKeon.
My be anybody help me?
Thanks

 

[Steve Smith]

Is there a name embossed in the leather covering?

If the film is 616 then the film format is bigger than 6x9. You can adapt it to 120 film though then you can get 6x10 frames from it.

I have a similar Kodak one which I have modified.


Steve.

 

[Peltigera]

I suspect that it is a "own brand" made by the likes of Voigtlander or Zeiss for large retailers.

 

[Pumalite]

Bet is an old Bessa 6X9 Folder.

 

[Steve Smith]

Not with 616 film.


Steve.

 

[Ian Grant]

Bet is an old Bessa 6X9 Folder.

Unlikely with a Schneider lens, they tended to use their own although I have seen Voightlanders fitted with Tessars.

There were a number of short lived German camera manufacturere sin the 1930's so with no name identification can be a big problem.

Ian

 

[Rick A]

It could possibly be a "Beier of Freisen" manufacture, but the "DF" or is it "FD" logo may prove elsewise.. The labeling on the shutter is who made the shutter, and the model.

 

[Shootar401]

Ihagee of some sorts?

Or an Avus?

 

[Ian Grant]

Again very unlikely to be an Avus as they use Voigtlanders own lenses, and it's not like any Ihagee I've adverts for in the 1930's. That rimset shutter gives a rough idea of the date as does the lens serial number which is 1929-31. I've a 1929 Almanac on it's way in the post at the moment I'll see what possiblities there are - no of roughly similar cameras.

Ian

 

[Ian Grant]

It could possibly be a "Beier of Freisen" manufacture, but the "DF" or is it "FD" logo may prove elsewise.. The labeling on the shutter is who made the shutter, and the model.

The FD is the shutter manufacturer F.Deckel.

I had a good look through my BJP Almanacs and in 1929 Xenars aren't listed on cameras from any manufactuer however some smaller companies aren't advertising. There's no Xenars on any rebranded cameras either. They appear on Nagel cameras not long after and then on Kodak cameras after they bought the Nagel company however this camera isn't like any of the Nagel/Kodak Six-16 cameras.

So yuou'll need to keep looking.

Ian

 

[xya]

maybe it's a wirgin. they bought their shutters from deckel (license compur) and optics from schneider. wirgin became balda later which also bought optics from schneider for the "good" models. just a guess.

 

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

From analysing from lens number
300,000 February 1929
400,000 April 1931
Schneider started the 300 000 series February 1929 , your lens may manufactured in following 3 months.
I will keep searching.

Umut

 

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

It looks like Nagel.

The era camera manufacturers are herebelow.

Adox Dr.Schleußner Neu-Isenburg
Agfa Camerawerk, München
Allgäuer Kamerawerkstätten Gomag, Pfronten
Altissa - Eho, Dresden
Anschütz, Berlin
Apparate- und Kamerabau (Aka), Friedrichshafen
Arnold, Marienberg

Balda, Dresden, Bünde
Baumann, Stuttgart/Ludwigsburg
Beier, Freital
Belca, Dresden
Curt Bentzin, Görlitz
Richard Bentzin, Görlitz
Bermpohl, Berlin
Berner, Elberfeld
Berning, Schwelm
Bertram, München
Bial & Freund, Breslau & Wien
Bickenbach, Berlin
Bilora (Kürbi & Niggeloh), Radevormwald
Bolta, Nürnberg
Braun, Nürnberg
Brinkert, Duisburg
Brückner, Rabenau
Bruns, München
Buisson, Emmendingen
Busch,Rathenow

Camera Gesellschaft, Stuttgart
Certo,Dresden
Colibri, Ulm
Contessa Werke, Stuttgart
Contessa-Nettel, Stuttgart

Dacora Dangelmeyer, Reutlingen,Nürnberg
Ebner, Stuttgart-Vaihingen
Elca-Elop, Glücksburg,Flensburg
Ernemann, Dresden
Feinwerktechnik, Lahr
Fertsch, Jena
Finetta, Goslar
Foitzik, Trier
Foth, Berlin
Futura Werk, Freiburg

Genos, Nürnberg
Gerlach,Wuppertal
Glunz, Hannover
Goerz, Berlin
Goldammer, Frankfurt

Hesekiel, Berlin
Hüttig, Dresden

ICA, Dresden
Ihagee, Dresden
Iloca, Hamburg
Indra, Frankfurt
Ising, Bergneustadt
Junka, Zirndorf

Kraftanski, Berlin
Kamerawerkstätten Guthe und Thorsch, Dresden
Kenngott, Stuttgart
Kilfitt, München
King, Bad Liebenzell
Knödler, Fürth
Kochmann, Dresden
Kodak, Stuttgart
Krauss, Stuttgart
Kronke, Dresden
Krügener, Frankfurt
Kunik, Frankfurt
Kürbi & Niggeloh - Bilora, Radevormwald

Laack, Rathenow
Leidolf, Wetzlar
Leitz, Wetzlar
Linhof, München
Lippische Kamerafabrik, Barntrup
Ludwig, Dresden

Mader, Isny
Mentor, Dresden
Merkel, Dresden
Mimosa, Dresden
Minox, Giessen
Montanus, Solingen
Münster Kamerabau, Ulm

Nagel Werke, Stuttgart
Necca, Neckarsulm
Neidig, Plankstadt
Nettel,Sontheim

Oehler, Wetzlar
Orion Werke, Hannover

Pentacon, Dresden
Photavit - Bolta, Nürnberg
Plasmat, Berlin
Plaubel, Frankfurt
Pouva, Freital

Rheinmetall, Solingen
Rietzschel, München
Robot, Düsseldorf
Rodehüser, Hamm
Rodenstock, München
Rollei, Braunschweig
Ruberg & Renner, Hagen

Sida, Berlin
Steineck, Tutzing
Steinheil, München

Thowe, Freital

Voigtländer, Wien & Braunschweig
Voss-Diax, Ulm
Vredeborch, Nordenham

Welta, Freital
Wenk, Nürnberg
Westfälische Kamera- und Apparatebau, Heessen
Wirgin, Wiesbaden

Carl Zeiss, Jena
Zeiss Ikon, Dresden & Stuttgart
Zeh, Dresden

 

[Ian Grant]

It's not like the Nagel cameras the struts etc are different. In addition the Nagel cameras were 116 nor 616.

Ian

 

[MDR]

It looks like a Nagel Librette. http://www.ukcamera.com/classic_cameras/nagel4.htm

Dominik

 

[Ian Grant]

Compare the images it's not like the Nagel Librette at all (except very basic shape) it's a different format anyway. From the outset Nagel and then Kodak always marked their brand names on the cameras and the Compur shutter plates are marked Nagel then Kodak as well.

Ian

 

[BrianL]

Wow, what a wide range of German manufacturers during that period. I wonder if Germany was the largest makers of cameras during the pre-wwII period. And, if it made the greatest number of units. They had the best glass back then and supplied lenses around the world to the likes of Kodak that I think was the largest US makers of cameras. I wonder who the top 20 US manufactureres were.

 

[Ian Grant]

Germany was definitely the largest camera manufacturing country and there's one or two companies not on that list. During the mid 1920's until the mid 1930's there were a number of short lived companies as trade was very tough, it forced a number of large companies to amalgamate as Zeiss Ikon.

Many of Kodak's better cameras of the 1930's were made in Germany at the Nagel factory which came under Kodak Ltd (UK) rather than Eastman Kodak (US) as did the coating plants on the Continent including in Hungary (which became Forte).

Even top US manufacturers like Agfa Ansco were under German control It needs to be remembered that much of the movement to smaller formats began in Europe and Germany led the way, the US lagged behind.

Ian

 

[Dan Quan]

It sure looks like a sweet shooter to me...

 

[Leksele]

Thank you all!
But I take a mistake about format.
Correct - 6.5x11cm
And now I think it to closer to
Zeiss Ikon, Super Ikonta (D) 530/15
http://collectiblend.com/Cameras/Zeiss-Ikon/Super-Ikonta-(D)-530-15.html