What are these films?

[miha]

the exterior wrapper says made in germany.
the band says made in west germany.

So this new fact possibly narrows down the production date to about 1973 indeed.

 

[TheGreatGasMaskMan]

So this new fact possibly narrows down the production date to about 1973 indeed.

and that fits with the average date of the other films I picked up.

 

[AgX]

"Made in Germany" is ambiguous.

"Made in West-Germany" might have been used furtheron if changing the text would be hassle as in injection moulding forms.

I guess before 1973 as it says Made in Germany, and not West Germany or GDR. Correct?

I got no idea what you base that 1973 on.

"Made in Germany" ought to be after reunification -- so post 1991 or so.

1990, but these are older films.

German Reunification took place in October 1990.

 

[miha]

I got no idea what you base that 1973 on

On this: https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Made_in_Germany

 

[AgX]

You misread that article. The year 1973 is of no relevance.

Moreover I know of no rebranding of Orwo products.

 

[Agulliver]

In the west, during the years of West and East Germany...."Made in Germany" was seen on products from both. I've got a 1980s Praktica MTL5 with "Made in Germany" stamped on it. I have a Grundig tape recorder from 1958 with "Made in W. Germany" and one from 1964 with "Made in Germany".

Sometimes "Made in W. Germany" was used as most people believed their products to be superior to the DDR...for similar reasons many products from the DDR were labelled "Made in Germany" and not DDR or E. Germany. However I have also seen CZJ lenses with "DDR" on them. So there is no clear naming convention for German products made between WWII and reunification in1990.

I visited West Germany in 1987 and had a tour of a section of East/West border. I was able to photograph the "Halt! Hier Grenze" signs, the fence, watch tower and guards. All thankfully things of the past now.

 

[railwayman3]

Sometimes "Made in W. Germany" was used as most people believed their products to be superior to the DDR...for similar reasons many products from the DDR were labelled "Made in Germany" and not DDR or E. Germany. However I have also seen CZJ lenses with "DDR" on them. So there is no clear naming convention for German products made between WWII and reunification in1990.

.

I have Orwo films, and some other bits-and-pieces, which state in English in full "Made in the German Democratic Republic". Perhaps some similar pride in their independently-made products,or a propaganda element in this. OTOH, my late Father's Exakta gear from the 1950's and 60's just said "Made in Germany", so no real pattern as you say.
Getting slightly OT, but I have some old GDR travel magazines from the 1970's which always refer to "Berlin, Capital of the German Democratic Republic"......I believe that the GDR state never really wanted to acknowledge that West Berlin was an independent entity ?

 

[miha]

You misread that article. The year 1973 is of no relevance.

Perhaps, but there are more hints that 1973 or 1974 was the year that west German manufacturers (some of them) started to use the "Made in West Germany" designation as can be seen from these links (in German only, apologies to the non-German speaking members):

https://www.rundschau-online.de/hintergrund-das-guetesiegel--made-in-germany--5764058

https://watch-wiki.org/index.php?title=Made_in_Germany

https://www.lr-online.de/nachrichte...r-guetesiegel-_made-in-germany_-36332854.html

https://www.gutefrage.net/frage/mad...-wird-diese-bezeichnung-nicht-mehr-verwendet-

http://www.porzellanfieber.de/Hintergrund_Made-in_Germany-GDR-DDR_auf-Eisenberger-Porzellan.html

https://deacademic.com/dic.nsf/dewiki/899806

 

[AgX]

Those sources only say that after the failed attempt, to ban the GDR from using the term "Made in Germany" in West-Germany the use of the term"made in West-Germany" grew and became standard.

Back then I did not perceive any change around that time (as you interpreted the Wikipedia article).

Moreover the deciding court only had jurisdiction over West-Germany and Berlin. A ban could have affected the GDR only on the import into West-Germany, however both states competed on foreign markets too. There is no reason to me that just that failed attempt should have led to a more specific designation. More so as specific designations were in use in the West already in the 40s.

 

[AgX]

To use that year for any assesment of production time, one would need to have not only valid figures for the use in general (what is lacking), but even a valid information for the very manufacturer.

For example Jobo changed before that, in 1971 or in the 60's.


(But I will have a look in future on this designation at my stuff, to see whether my perception was true or not. A first short glance showed that I was right.)

 

[miha]

Thanks for the additional info, AgX.

 

[Donald Qualls]

OTOH, my late Father's Exakta gear from the 1950's and 60's just said "Made in Germany", so no real pattern as you say.

My first SLR (which I got in 1973 or 1974) was an Exa II; it was stamped "Made in Germany" and overstamped (with an etched stamp, I'm told probably by the importer) "Germany, USSR Occupied." Not sure when it was made, but based on features (500 max shutter, vertical cloth curtain, only one automatic aperture lens with mechanism independent of the body, other lens was a preset type), it was probably before 1960.

 

[AgX]

My first SLR (which I got in 1973 or 1974) was an Exa II; it was stamped "Made in Germany" and overstamped (with an etched stamp, I'm told probably by the importer) "Germany, USSR Occupied."

Such Designation was urged by the US Treasury on all goods imported from the GDR, based on the USA not acknowledging the existance of an east-german state(and no western country until 1969, the USA until 1974) . Whereas west-german goods had to be labelled "Germany".
In 1960 there was a US court decision in a case of a US importer removing such "Germany-USSR occupied" label.

One may wonder who actually applied this designation, the GDR manufacturer or the US importer. One might think that no GDR manufacturer would have done so, stating to be still occupied. But at least at some cameras the location and make of the designation hint at the manufacturer.

 

[TheGreatGasMaskMan]

Alright, the first of the three german films has been shot and loaded, but I don't know when I'll get to developing it- probably saturday or sunday.
There's also no indication of what the film is on the end of the backing paper- the end band just says:
Exposed Quality
Super-Tone Roll Film

 

[TheGreatGasMaskMan]

first german film is developed- while there are images, the film is pretty dark.
I used hc110 at 1:100 for 60 mn, 68º F.
going to need to do some more digging on how to do a stand dev.

 

[TheGreatGasMaskMan]

Sorry this took so long, but I finally got my second german film scanned. I just gave these frames a quick touchup, but here's a sample if anyone's still interested.

 

[AgX]

As a side note:
Seen the content of the two first photos I thought it easy to locate these. But after quite some googling I am still clueless.