What an eye opener; darkroom printing vs scanning.

[rpavich]

Up until a few weeks ago, I was shooting film and scanning it. Everything was going fine, I was shooting box speed, sometimes pushing, sometimes pulling.

No matter what I did, the negatives survived pretty well. I got a false sense of security on how well I was exposing.

Well, I just made a contact sheet for the first time using Kentmere 400 shot at 800. indoor shots, outdoor shots.
I can see 2 things.

1.) My exposures are all over the map.
2.) Printing from a pushed negative is more of a challenge than printing from one shot at box speed. It's certainly a different look.

The experience of printing a pushed negative is much different than viewing a scan from a pushed negative...it really took me by surprise.

I really have a newfound respect for those who know their way around a darkroom.

For tonight, I'm tired, my back hurts, I only got two "working prints" and no final prints. I'll get at it tomorrow morning again

 

[frank]

Ganbatte!

 

[rpavich]

Ganbatte!

Uh...."do your best!"? Or "go for it!"?

 

[frank]

Both!

 

[HiHoSilver]

Gulp. I've seen the future. It has some heartburn.

 

[paul_c5x4]

1.) My exposures are all over the map.
2.) Printing from a pushed negative is more of a challenge than printing from one shot at box speed. It's certainly a different look.

Once you have got the hang of printing in the darkroom, have a read of Barry Thornton's paper on Dead Link Removed - You may find that you shoot Kentmere 400 at 320 rather than full box speed.

 

[MattKing]

I've been saying this for more than 4 decades.

The very best way to learn how to expose and develop your film consistently and well is to:

1) print your negatives; and
2) project your slides.

There is a wonderful feedback loop built into the process. You shoot, you develop, you print and then for the next roll you make appropriate adjustments.

It is not impossible to build a similar feedback loop into either a lab develop and print workflow or a develop and scan workflow, but IMHO it is more difficult to do so.

 

[rowghani]

Up until a few weeks ago, I was shooting film and scanning it. Everything was going fine, I was shooting box speed, sometimes pushing, sometimes pulling.

No matter what I did, the negatives survived pretty well. I got a false sense of security on how well I was exposing.

Well, I just made a contact sheet for the first time using Kentmere 400 shot at 800. indoor shots, outdoor shots.
I can see 2 things.

1.) My exposures are all over the map.
2.) Printing from a pushed negative is more of a challenge than printing from one shot at box speed. It's certainly a different look.

The experience of printing a pushed negative is much different than viewing a scan from a pushed negative...it really took me by surprise.

I really have a newfound respect for those who know their way around a darkroom.

For tonight, I'm tired, my back hurts, I only got two "working prints" and no final prints. I'll get at it tomorrow morning again

Great stuff dude. Its a great feeling putting in the leg work and ending up with a print you love. Best of luck.

 

[jeffreythree]

As a recent convert to darkroom printing, I understand you completely. It took a while, but I make better, printable negatives now that I print them rather than scan, and can make a better B&W print than any hybrid workflow I tried before. I have the comparison prints hanging on my inspiration boards(personal best 50 pictures on magnetic chalkboard).

 

[Sirius Glass]

I've been saying this for more than 4 decades.

The very best way to learn how to expose and develop your film consistently and well is to:

1) print your negatives; and
2) project your slides.

There is a wonderful feedback loop built into the process. You shoot, you develop, you print and then for the next roll you make appropriate adjustments.

It is not impossible to build a similar feedback loop into either a lab develop and print workflow or a develop and scan workflow, but IMHO it is more difficult to do so.

The OP is learning that there is a wonderful photographic world out there for him to discover.

 

[RobC]

It's just so much more rewarding actually making a print by hand rather than sending a file to a printer.

 

[ac12]

You may also find that darkroom printing is more relaxing that working on the computer. At least it is for me.
There are a bunch of tricks to learn, and you will, and they will make life in the darkroom much easier.

 

[markbarendt]

1.) My exposures are all over the map.

So what?

2.) Printing from a pushed negative is more of a challenge than printing from one shot at box speed. It's certainly a different look.

That's why I don't push anymore. Been bit by that dog.

The experience of printing a pushed negative is much different than viewing a scan from a pushed negative...it really took me by surprise.

Digital systems hide a lot. Contact sheets don't.

____________

What I mean by "so what" is that one of the joys of shooting negatives is that exactly perfect exposure isn't a requirement for good work. Just change the enlarger exposure to match, fixed.

 

[mrred]

Scanning ain't photography.

Total BS. It may be a tool you choose not to use, but certainly is.

 

[mrred]

deleted

 

[mr rusty]

Think I'll stick to darkroom, because anything less than this must be compromised in some way......................

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/463800-REG/Hasselblad_70380301_Flextight_X5_Scanner.html

 

[mrred]

Don't confuse skill with hardware. You can put anyone in the best equipped darkroom and still not produce decent prints.

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

Total BS. It may be a tool you choose not to use, but certainly is.

Well... strictly speaking, it isn't photography. One doesn't normally hold up and point a photographic scanner at an original subject and then tell that subject to stand really, really still.

Rather, it's one step in a hybrid process of photographic reproduction that often targets computer monitors as its primary viewing mechanism. Other forms of reproduction might also include newsprint, magazines, fine art books, postcards, inkjets, and yes, even silver prints. All of which may also include a scanning step.

However this being APUG, our main focus here is on darkroom silver prints created without the use of hybrid scanning steps. Given that, it should not come as a surprise that members here may look upon scanning for primary reproduction as not being a part of the traditional photographic process.

After all, the membership of many online sites that specialize in digital reproduction methods are quite vocal in their opinions that traditional darkroom methods of photographic reproduction have nothing at all to do with modern photography.

And being the congenial and understanding APUG members that we are, we do not directly challenge their beliefs. Especially from within their own discussion groups. That would be rude.

Ken

 

[mrred]

And by your reasoning, a camera is a copy device. An enlarger is a copy device. I am not here to be tolerated. Your statement was just as I stated.

 

[Truzi]

Another thing the OP might notice is some negatives that are difficult to scan with the average consumer scanner may be easier to print with an enlarger. Perhaps not easy, but easier.

 

[removed account4]

i'd suggest the OP expose and develop as many different types of negatives as he can find. some thin, some dense,
some perfect, some not so perfect. this will change one's perspective about printing and help interpret the negative,
not just print it / will make better exposer, developer and printer.
rc paper takes very little time to develop, fix and wash and it is easy to see the results of one's work faster than fiber.
this will teach about "dry down" too because what looks good in the water/fix might be too light or dark once it is dried.

good luck !

===

thank you mrred!

 

[bdial]

The magic of watching the image emerge in the developer is worth it just on its own.
Welcome to the club!

 

[HiHoSilver]

The magic of watching the image emerge in the developer is worth it just on its own.
Welcome to the club!

'Been decades since I've seen/done it - but you're right. 'Something I've never forgotten. Now I just have to make space to set up.

 

[paul ron]

You have a very talented computer!

 

[rpavich]

Thanks so much for the encouragement everyone! I don't know why the forum wasn't alerting me to the replies...hmmm

I'll re-read them and take them to heart, I appreciate you taking the time to reply.

For the record, things went better this morning after sleeping on it last night. I had time to think things through and formulate a plan of attack this morning.


I got 4 prints done, one of which was what I'd say "good" and the others were learning experiences. (i.e. good enough for the shoebox of personal prints for when I'm 70 years old.)