Wetting Agents-can they be used over and over

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Sparky

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Okay - sorry. I'm tired. I think it's 'technically' correct - but maybe not so conventially used. An OH- group is negatively charged - and generally used to denote hydroxyl group -and vice-versa. Please substitue all uses of the word 'anion' with 'hydroxyl group' (OH-) then - if that works better for you. Hopefully you know what I mean.
 

haris

Ilford wetting agent is diluted 1+199. If you buy 1 liter bottle and every time make fresh, even your children will have it left to use it. So, no reason for not making fresh every time...
 

Photo Engineer

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Sparky;

I apologize if my words could be misread, but the sum total of your first two posts ask and state "if anyone has used a dish detergent - you can if you choose wisely". This is a summation of what you asked, not an exact quote.

You went on to comment on the use of the pH of a surfactant affecting the stability of paper.

So, my answer was that dish detergents commonly contain alkali, perfumes and colorants, and that some of them contain skin conditioners (oils) to prevent chapping of hands. I further stated that you do not commonly use a surfactant at all when processing papers. I think that this addresses all of your comments.

Now, let me separate buffer capacity from pH. They are two different things. Buffer capacity can refer to acidic or basic solutions. It is the resistance of a solution to a change in pH from the present pH value, whatever it may be.

Water, whether alkaline or basic has little buffer capacity as the level of chemicals is so low. It can normally range from about 6 - 9 with an average of about 7. Recently though most cities have begun to adjust the pH to alkaline values to reduce pipe corrosion.

A washed film will be at the pH of the final wash water, whatever that may be. During drying, the pH generally drops towards the acid region due to the carbon dioxide in the air and it then stops as the water evaporates and stabilzes at some indeterminate value. This is usuall pretty close to neutral.

Photo flo, (which I use BTW) is made from organic compounds that do not form crystals when dry and which do not change the pH of the coating. Ionic surfactants such as used in detergents are also organic, but can leave deposits on the surface of film. This is because they are salts of organic chemicals, such as the sodium salt of di-nonyl naphtalene sulfonic acid. As such they can form a soapy scum if left on film. This is why you use things like Tilex to remove that soapy scum from the shower or bath. These are a mixture of dried soap and calcium salts formed with the soap. It also includes skin oils and the detergent oils and scents.

Therefore, even at a drop in a liter of water, there is enough potential (potential <- see that) to form a scum from a lot of sources that dish detergent or soap is not advised for use.

There are many excellent wetting agents out there besides Photo Flo. They include a variety of surfactants designed to make no change to the pH of a film and leave no scum on the surface. Use them instead of dish detergent or soap. Never use automatic dishwasher detergent.

PE
 

vet173

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Thanks PE for the info. I use LFN myself. The one drop per liter was what a friend uses.
 

PHOTOTONE

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The original question was "can wetting agents be used over and over?." My answer is, yes, but I wouldn't. The "wetting agent" effect of wetting agents cause any minute particulate matter around the liquid to drop into the liquid and I find that in re-using solutions such as Photo-Flo, I get more potential for dirt on the negatives with reuse, than if I mix up a fresh one-shot for each use. I used to keep a 3.5 gallon deep tank of Photo-Flo for my 4x5 film processing final rinse. I get cleaner negatives now by just mixing up enough for a 5x7 print tray and placing the negatives in the solution in the tray before hanging up. Over a period of time, even though the deep tank had a tight fitting lid, the Photo-Flo would collect dirt.
 
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The answer is yes you can reuse it. I would change it a least every month. Hint
mix photo-flo using distilled water, it makes huge difference in regards to water marks. I used to process large volumes of film 20+ rolls of B&W a day. It was much easier to re-use mixed final wash and there was absolutely no dirt build up if I mixed 3 1/2 gallons every two weeks.
 

jstraw

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Distilled water/isopropyl alcohol in a 80/20 ratio with a drop of photoflo was the recipe for a cleaning solution I used to use with a machine built for cleaning vinyl record albums. Sounds like it would be perfect for dipping film too.
 
OP
OP

Mahler_one

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I really appreciate all of the kind and informative replies concerning photo-flow. My conclusion is that-with some caveats concerning particles- it is obviously safe to reuse the solution, but cost is not an issue if one wants to make up a fresh batch regularly. Andiamo!

Edwin
 

Michael W

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Here's a question that follows on from this topic so i might as well ask it here as the original questions all seem to have been answered.
After I take the film from the photo flo should I hang it straight in the drying cabinet, or first try to get rid of some of the excess liquid?

I generally follow option 2, sometimes dragging my fingers lightly either side of the film, or sometimes with a chamois that is slightly damp with photo flo.
I've never seen any problems from doing this but one person keeps telling me this increases the risk of scratching the film.
Opinions? Facts?
 

Marco S.

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Thanks PE for the info. I use LFN myself. The one drop per liter was what a friend uses.

I also use a drop of LFN per 120 film tank. Easy to use, no pre-mixing, no contamination. Photo-Flo has never worked for me, even with distilled, don't know why, doesn't matter.

Just use whatever works for you, and thanks PE, for the info. Better to know than not.

Regards,

Marco S.
 

dancqu

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goldie;445491 I generally follow option 2 said:
For many years I used a Yankee sponge film wiper.
No problem. The last few years I've been using
Jobo's eight blade film squeegee. Very nice.
Film drys fast.

BTW, that Jobo goes by other names. Just like
their trays. Dan
 
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