Wet mounting fluid

Deleted member 88956 · May 30, 2019

Am I correct in that all (or most) mounting fluids in use for wet scanning are essentially mineral or white spirit / naphtha / turpentine? Every and any one of these is suitable? Smell is another matter of course.

Are "odorless" mineral spirits really ... odor less?

Gamsol - anyone using it.

The point to these questions is that there are cutely named fluids that make seems like THE product to get for wet scanning at a "proper" price of course, or there are general products that appear chemically the same at a fraction of the cost.

Deleted member 88956 · May 30, 2019

I follow up with my own findings at this point: odorless mineral spirits are refined to exclude aromatic compounds, hence the "odorless" name. I really would like to know how not-smelly they really are.

Photo Engineer · May 30, 2019

Kodak used a particular silicone oil for scanning and for "wet" analog enlargements. Sorry, but IDK which one.

PE

bdial · May 30, 2019

In my experience, "odorless mineral spirits" are still fairly smelly. You may want to look for mineral oil, similar to what might be sold as "baby oil", though that specific product ("baby oil") usually has some perfume. The mineral oil would be slightly thicker than spirits, however.

Photo Engineer · May 30, 2019

You don't want to extract the dyes from color films, so you need such a liquid. Test a color film scrap first to see if the dyes come out.

PE

Jason Berge · May 31, 2019

Diggers Shellite is identical to Kami fluid, and cost a whole heap less, and you can buy it at the hardware store. Totally inert for film and evaporates with no residue. Been using it for years, after the performance to get Kami, which most people won't ship due to its volatile nature. Last lot I had to get sent sea freight.

Adrian Bacon · May 31, 2019

Witold said:
Am I correct in that all (or most) mounting fluids in use for wet scanning are essentially mineral or white spirit / naphtha / turpentine? Every and any one of these is suitable? Smell is another matter of course.

Are "odorless" mineral spirits really ... odor less?

Gamsol - anyone using it.

The point to these questions is that there are cutely named fluids that make seems like THE product to get for wet scanning at a "proper" price of course, or there are general products that appear chemically the same at a fraction of the cost.

If I'm wet mounting something, I generally use plain 100% mineral oil. I take a sheet of clean glass, tape one end of the negative to it, then take a sheet of clear duralar (they come in different thicknesses, thinner is better) and tape the edge of that against the glass just past the taped negative. Then I lift both the duralar and the negative up, place a healthy bead of mineral oil on the glass up against the taped negative and let the negative drop back down, then do the same for the duralar. From there, I take a 6 inch wide rubberized roller and roll everything flat starting from the taped size rolling to the un-taped side. This results in a fluid sandwich with the film in the middle. The mineral oil is just thick enough that bubbles generally aren't a problem. It can improve the image quite a bit depending on how it's being scanned, however, I've found that I generally have better results by simply having as little as possible in the optical path, so for my normal setup, I have the light source, then the film, then the scanner lens, then the scanner sensor. The less surface to air transitions you can make, generally, the better the quality. It's difficult to do that with a flatbed, which is why wet mounting can help.

For cleaning the film, it's a quick dip in 75-80 degree 99.999% isopropyl alcohol which does a very good job of cutting off the mineral oil, then a quick dip in either photo Flo for BW or final rinse for C-41, then hang to dry and re-sleeve. I'm only willing to wet mount new film currently in production. If somebody gives me old film to scan and wants a wet mount, I won't do it.

Photo Engineer · May 31, 2019

Jason Berge said:
Diggers Shellite is identical to Kami fluid, and cost a whole heap less, and you can buy it at the hardware store. Totally inert for film and evaporates with no residue. Been using it for years, after the performance to get Kami, which most people won't ship due to its volatile nature. Last lot I had to get sent sea freight.

As best I can find, Diggers Shellite is mostly Acetone. Kami is a hydrocarbon. I guess I know why Kodak used the silicone fluid. It is not flammable and has limited volatility.

PE

PhilBurton · May 31, 2019

Adrian Bacon said:
If I'm wet mounting something, I generally use plain 100% mineral oil. I take a sheet of clean glass, tape one end of the negative to it, then take a sheet of clear duralar (they come in different thicknesses, thinner is better) and tape the edge of that against the glass just past the taped negative. Then I lift both the duralar and the negative up, place a healthy bead of mineral oil on the glass up against the taped negative and let the negative drop back down, then do the same for the duralar. From there, I take a 6 inch wide rubberized roller and roll everything flat starting from the taped size rolling to the un-taped side. This results in a fluid sandwich with the film in the middle. The mineral oil is just thick enough that bubbles generally aren't a problem. It can improve the image quite a bit depending on how it's being scanned, however, I've found that I generally have better results by simply having as little as possible in the optical path, so for my normal setup, I have the light source, then the film, then the scanner lens, then the scanner sensor. The less surface to air transitions you can make, generally, the better the quality. It's difficult to do that with a flatbed, which is why wet mounting can help.

For cleaning the film, it's a quick dip in 75-80 degree 99.999% isopropyl alcohol which does a very good job of cutting off the mineral oil, then a quick dip in either photo Flo for BW or final rinse for C-41, then hang to dry and re-sleeve. I'm only willing to wet mount new film currently in production. If somebody gives me old film to scan and wants a wet mount, I won't do it.

Is there a way go give this post a Thumbs Up? Very informative.

jim10219 · May 31, 2019

I use naphtha for scanning fluid. It's cheap, dries quickly, doesn't leave a noticeable residue, easy to find locally, and works. Also, I always have some on hand because it's such a useful cleaner. Then I just dip the negatives in some photo flo and wash water and hang to dry.

I can't say much about the odor though. I've never had a good sense of smell, so things that bother other people rarely bother me.

Adrian Bacon · May 31, 2019

jim10219 said:
I use naphtha for scanning fluid. It's cheap, dries quickly, doesn't leave a noticeable residue, easy to find locally, and works. Also, I always have some on hand because it's such a useful cleaner. Then I just dip the negatives in some photo flo and wash water and hang to dry.

I can't say much about the odor though. I've never had a good sense of smell, so things that bother other people rarely bother me.

I have extremely sensitive skin and respiratory system, so I try to stay away from stuff that is allergenic and/or evaporates quickly with the exception of the 99.999 percent isopropyl alcohol. I’ve had one too many near ER visits because I reacted with something that was smelly that I ended up being sensitive to, so for me, it’s stick with as inert as possible stuff whenever possible, and glove up and use adequate respiratory safety measures when I can’t avoid it.

Deleted member 88956 · Jun 1, 2019

jim10219 said:
I use naphtha for scanning fluid. It's cheap, dries quickly, doesn't leave a noticeable residue, easy to find locally, and works. Also, I always have some on hand because it's such a useful cleaner. Then I just dip the negatives in some photo flo and wash water and hang to dry.

I can't say much about the odor though. I've never had a good sense of smell, so things that bother other people rarely bother me.

Just to be sure: after naphtha use all you need is a quick dip in photo-flo to be back with a clean negative?

Jason Berge · Jun 10, 2019

Photo Engineer said:
As best I can find, Diggers Shellite is mostly Acetone. Kami is a hydrocarbon. I guess I know why Kodak used the silicone fluid. It is not flammable and has limited volatility.

PE

Diggers Shellite is most definitely not acetone!!!!! According to the text on the side of the bottle sitting on my shelf, It is a 100% hydrocarbon.

The simplest test is to smell it. Shellite and Kami are identical in odour, I have both, and they are functionally interchangeable.

Photo Engineer · Jun 10, 2019

You are correct. The last time I searched, I found a reference to Acetone and now it is gone. In any event, both Kami and Shellite are hazardous materials that are seriously flammable, so be careful.

PE

Jason Berge · Jun 10, 2019

Photo Engineer said:
You are correct. The last time I searched, I found a reference to Acetone and now it is gone. In any event, both Kami and Shellite are hazardous materials that are seriously flammable, so be careful.

PE

Thanks, I think I'll be right after doing it for nearly 30 years.

The big advantage is really the zero clean up. Just wave it back and forward's until the neg/trans is dry and put it back in its sleeve.

Cheers.

Photo Engineer · Jun 10, 2019

Yep, I was at it for 50+ years and only had one bottle of solvent catch fire and one bottle of Hydrogen explode. Oh, and the Ether that caught fire and burned off most of my eyebrows and some of my hair. Yeah, keep thinking you are safe - until you are not. Please take care. You see, two of the things I note here were the fault of others.

PE

calebarchie · Jun 10, 2019

Please explain context of your wet mounting, what originals and onto what material? Glass plate or acrylic drum?

Bests

Deleted member 88956 · Jun 11, 2019

calebarchie said:
Please explain context of your wet mounting, what originals and onto what material? Glass plate or acrylic drum?

Bests

Negatives on flat bad scanner/glass plate

calebarchie · Jun 11, 2019

Witold said:
Negatives on flat bad scanner/glass plate

Any of the above hydrocarbons should work fine on glass, depending on what you are wet mounting for - test on film first. Gels and oils will have greater performance (refractive index) and less volatile/flameable but require more clean up.
Please do not use any untested or not-fit-for-purpose solvents on acrylic drums for drum scanning.

Bests,
Caleb

Photo Engineer · Jun 11, 2019

Another thought. Some solvents can extract the dye or the coupler / dye solvent from the film thus affecting the color and the stability of the original. Another thing to think about.

PE

Wet mounting fluid

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