Weston Master 2 confusion

BADGER.BRAD · Jul 25, 2017

I have just brought a Weston master 2 from Ebay to use with my old Cosmic 35m, I have been using the sunny 16 rule ie the symbols on the camera with good results but wondered if I could make them even better. Using a camera set at f11 at 200 ASA It gives me a exposure speed of 15 to 30th of a second the meter gives me a reading of 1/400 of a second (I'm obviously doing some thing wrong !. This is what I have been doing I have set the film speed to Weston film speed of 160 which I am led to believe is there equivalent of 200ASA Pointed the meter ie: by pointing the back of the meter at the subject (there was a description which read keeping the meter parallel to the ground take the reading which confused me because then I would not be reading the light reflected from the subject !) I have took the reading in this case 300 (is this an actual known measurement of light or just Westons ) Rotated the dial till the arrow points at 300 then took the speed by matching what is next on the dial to f11. Can anyone see my stupid error ?

Dan Fromm · Jul 25, 2017

http://www.jollinger.com/photo/meters/other/weston-article.html

http://www.westonmeter.org.uk/speeds.htm

BADGER.BRAD · Jul 25, 2017

I take it this meter does not read reflected light but is just reading general light levels ! I must admit i haven't seen many light meters but the all of the ones I saw my Dad use needed to be pointed at the subject.

MattKing · Jul 25, 2017

BADGER.BRAD said:
I take it this meter does not read reflected light but is just reading general light levels !

Nope - you take reflected light readings with a Weston Master II (not Master 2).
The back of the meter points toward the subject - but you hold the meter with its side parallel to the ground.
It is all described in the manual - which is easily found on the internet.

BADGER.BRAD · Jul 25, 2017

Using it the first way means the cell faces the floor the second gives very high readings not matching the Cameras light meter

MattKing · Jul 25, 2017

Holding it the second way is what the manual means when they describe holding the meter "parallel with the ground".
They are trying to discourage people from holding it with the scale pointing to the sky.

BADGER.BRAD · Jul 25, 2017

Thanks Matt much appreciated, I think I'll have to stick to the sunny 16 rule as the readings make it impossible to use. The camera does not have the capability to use those settings and if I did it would mean a massive under exposure according to the other camera and the settings I would have used down to experience.. If nothing else it looks a nice bit of kit.

R.Gould · Jul 25, 2017

BADGER.BRAD said:
View attachment 183326
View attachment 183327
Using it the first way means the cell faces the floor the second gives very high readings not matching the Cameras light meter

With Weston then you need to hold the meter so that the cell is pointing slightly down so that readings exclude the blue to some extent, with Master IV and V the instructions state for general scenes outdoors when the reading is taken from the camera position tilt the meter sufficiently downwards to avoid measuring sky areas which would inflate the reading and cause under exposure, if the scdene is backlit then using the reflected light method may lead to underexposure, I normally, in tthese conditions take a reading from my hand and and use the C position on the dial, thus increasing the exposure to correct for this. or I will use the Invercone and take incident light reading's,
Richard

outwest · Jul 25, 2017

Well, 400 at f/11 with 200 speed film would be a correct Sunny 16 setting for a bright sunny day. Of course, you are in England and a true bright sunny day is rare. I just checked a II and your settings are correct. If it metered 300 the 400 at f/11 would be correct. Working backwards on a V I set to 400 at f/11 and the meter reading would have been 13 1/3 or a bright sunny day. I have Weston (I)s, IIs, IIIs (some still packaged as sold), IVs, Vs, Euro Masters and Euro Master IIs. Oddly, the IIIs stand the best chance of working. I've never had one read high unless it was not calibrated. Have you set yours to read 0 with no light entering the cell? I use mine with the cell parallel to the ground and facing the ground about 10-15 feet in front of me. This gives me a good Zone 5 reading on grass or green bushes. They are in several of my kits as backup for my spot meters (batteries!).

Brett Rogers · Jul 26, 2017

outwest said:
Well, 400 at f/11 with 200 speed film would be a correct Sunny 16 setting for a bright sunny day. Of course, you are in England and a true bright sunny day is rare. I just checked a II and your settings are correct. If it metered 300 the 400 at f/11 would be correct. Working backwards on a V I set to 400 at f/11 and the meter reading would have been 13 1/3 or a bright sunny day. I have Weston (I)s, IIs, IIIs (some still packaged as sold), IVs, Vs, Euro Masters and Euro Master IIs. Oddly, the IIIs stand the best chance of working. I've never had one read high unless it was not calibrated. Have you set yours to read 0 with no light entering the cell? I use mine with the cell parallel to the ground and facing the ground about 10-15 feet in front of me. This gives me a good Zone 5 reading on grass or green bushes. They are in several of my kits as backup for my spot meters (batteries!).

You must have bloody long arms then.

BADGER.BRAD · Jul 26, 2017

I thought it would be rare for it to read high ,the weather at the time was dull and overcast. Using the cameras symbols and my judgment it would have worked out at 1/30th of a second and using the camera with the inbuilt meter some where between 1/15th and 1/30th of a second.The meter is calibrated to read zero with zero light.

MattKing · Jul 26, 2017

BADGER.BRAD said:
I have just brought a Weston master 2 from Ebay to use with my old Cosmic 35m, I have been using the sunny 16 rule ie the symbols on the camera with good results but wondered if I could make them even better. Using a camera set at f11 at 200 ASA It gives me a exposure speed of 15 to 30th of a second the meter gives me a reading of 1/400 of a second (I'm obviously doing some thing wrong !. This is what I have been doing I have set the film speed to Weston film speed of 160 which I am led to believe is there equivalent of 200ASA Pointed the meter ie: by pointing the back of the meter at the subject (there was a description which read keeping the meter parallel to the ground take the reading which confused me because then I would not be reading the light reflected from the subject !) I have took the reading in this case 300 (is this an actual known measurement of light or just Westons ) Rotated the dial till the arrow points at 300 then took the speed by matching what is next on the dial to f11. Can anyone see my stupid error ?

I've been struggling with the scenario in this post.
What version of the Sunny 16 rule are you using?
I ask, because for 200 ASA(ISO) film in full sunlight, Sunny 16 indicates 1/ISO at f/16 = 1/200 at f/16 which is equivalent to 1/400 at f/11.
That seems to me to be the same exposure as the Weston suggests.
I think your problem is with your Cosmic 35, not the Weston meter.
If I'm not understanding your method of comparison correctly, I'd ask how you are sure that what you are comparing the Weston to is correct?

MattKing · Jul 26, 2017

Also, as I understand it, ISO 200 = Weston 150.

Craig75 · Jul 26, 2017

The cell is on the back of the meter. Not sure why it says to hold it parallel to ground!.

What was the subject matter you were pointing it at? Something light like a white wall may give 1/200 - before you put it on a lighter tone by giving it a couple of stops more. Which would match yr camera

Edit: ah forget that.. didnt realise camera was giving you a 15th and meter 400th... thats a huge difference

MattKing · Jul 26, 2017

Craig75 said:
Edit: ah forget that.. didnt realise camera was giving you a 15th and meter 400th... thats a huge difference

As best I can tell, the OP's camera doesn't have a built in meter. Instead, it essentially incorporates the "Sunny 16" rule using pictures on a dial that also adjusts either the aperture or shutter speed.

Craig75 · Jul 26, 2017

MattKing said:
As best I can tell, the OP's camera doesn't have a built in meter. Instead, it essentially incorporates the "Sunny 16" rule using pictures on a dial that also adjusts either the aperture or shutter speed.

Ah ok. So dull miserable day with 200iso film would be a 30th or a 15th at f11 and it is dull and miserable in my corner of england at minute which sounds right.

Rear baffle (or whstever its called) of meter not opened for accurate lowlight reading?

shutterfinger · Jul 26, 2017

There are 3 versions of the Weston Master II instruction manual at
http://www.butkus.org/chinon/flashes_meters/weston_exposure_meters/weston_exposure_meters.htm
They should be helpful.

Bill Burk · Jul 26, 2017

One of my favorite ways to use this meter is to hold up my hand and meter that. Then "place" that reading on Zone VI

The reason for holding it "sideways " is to properly balance the meter's spring - those are not instructions about avoiding sky.

shutterfinger · Jul 26, 2017

Bill Burk said:
The reason for holding it "sideways " is to properly balance the meter's spring - those are not instructions about avoiding sky.

Read step 2. From the diagrams the meter appears to have a 30° angle of view which is common among reflected light meters. A meter with a 30° angle of view will pick up a lot of sky if pointed straight ahead.

Bill Burk · Jul 26, 2017

I'll not deny that that specific instruction is an instruction not to meter sky.

Just the other instruction wasn't

BADGER.BRAD · Jul 27, 2017

The subject was a deep red car taken against a grass back ground looking slight down at it. It appears to be reading 5 stops (ish) higher than it should according to the meter in a Praktica Camera and also 5 stops high against using my own judgment as to settings on the Cosmic the other problem would be in poor to medium light it is giving me a faster shutter speed than the camera will do 1/400th when the fastest on the camera is 1/250th. The baffle is in place when taking the readings. With the Cosmic the film speed and Aperture are linked so if I use 100 ASA film this will pre set the aperture so that the Symbols (sunny 16 rule) should give good photos if judged correctly. Some times though it gets a little difficult to judge whether it's sunny,sunny with partial cloud or cloudy this doesn't cause the settings to be too far out of course but a working meter would give me a better indication.The sunny 16 symbols on the top of the lens are then replicated underneath the lens as Exposure times ranging from 1/250th for bright and sunny down to 1/15th for cloudy and dull +B. The camera was my Moms brought by my Dad , he also brought my two sisters a Cosmic 35m each and later I had an older Cosmic 35 which I copied the Symbols and their corresponding shutter speed onto a bit of paper which I stuck in the bottom of the case with a bit of cello tape as the 35 only had the exposure speed settings, this way I could use the camera without a meter and very little knowledge. As you can see I have a bit of a history with Cosmic cameras and this one in particular with it being my moms this all being 35 to 40 years ago. A bit off subject I know. I have another light meter from my dads collection which is a battery meter a Raynox but as yet I cannot find which battery is needed. I have found very limited information which says it needs a 625 type battery but this does not seem to fit being too small. Has anyone come across this before ? I was trying to stay away from Japanese stuff but if I already have it I may as well use it.

Thanks everyone for your input

Craig75 · Jul 27, 2017

I have a master v and the baffle would need to be open to give me f11 1/30th. (Which sounds right exposure wise).

As Outwestsaid maybe the zero correction screw is waaaay out. block the cell out and take a reading and needle should be at 0. if not keep adjusting the screw at the back until needle moves over 0

shutterfinger · Jul 27, 2017

The Weston meter uses a Selenium cell that can fail with age. The common failure is to read low. The meter is real simple. The selenium cell produces an electric current when exposed to light. The meter movement is a magnet and coil. The selenium cell is connected to the coil, sometimes through a resistor, and the amount of current produced by the cell determines how far the needle mounted on the magnet will move. The zero adjustment is a mechanical arm that sets the meter's starting point and does not limit the movement. A lot of manufacturers used this in their meters with the difference being in the meter coil, magnet, and movement. The magnet/needle is on a jewel movement like a watch.
Now to check two or more meters for accuracy point them at a continuous tone that is evenly lit and fills the meter's sensor, they should give the same reading or close to it.
I use a 18% gray card, fill the meters sensor with the gray card without casting a shadow onto the card. Usually holding the card at arm length is sufficient and the angle if the card is critical as a 5° difference of angle can result in a 1 stop difference in the reading in bright light.

It is common for a selenium cell meter to read accurately in bright light and be off in medium to low light. I test in bright sun and shade. Being close to the coast and bay bright sun may not occur for a few days at a time.

Arklatexian · Jul 27, 2017

BADGER.BRAD said:
I have just brought a Weston master 2 from Ebay to use with my old Cosmic 35m, I have been using the sunny 16 rule ie the symbols on the camera with good results but wondered if I could make them even better. Using a camera set at f11 at 200 ASA It gives me a exposure speed of 15 to 30th of a second the meter gives me a reading of 1/400 of a second (I'm obviously doing some thing wrong !. This is what I have been doing I have set the film speed to Weston film speed of 160 which I am led to believe is there equivalent of 200ASA Pointed the meter ie: by pointing the back of the meter at the subject (there was a description which read keeping the meter parallel to the ground take the reading which confused me because then I would not be reading the light reflected from the subject !) I have took the reading in this case 300 (is this an actual known measurement of light or just Westons ) Rotated the dial till the arrow points at 300 then took the speed by matching what is next on the dial to f11. Can anyone see my stupid error ?

Unless my memory is letting me down, the older Weston Speeds in the older Weston meters was 80% of the ASA of that time. When Weston went to the "silver" Master (I think those were made in England), they too started using ASA. I repeat, it has been a loooong time ago. In those days, few used the "sunny 16" method as Kodak and others had instruction sheets packed with the film with recommendations for different light conditions,,,,Regards!

Jim Jones · Jul 27, 2017

Craig75 said:
I have a master v and the baffle would need to be open to give me f11 1/30th. (Which sounds right exposure wise).

As Outwestsaid maybe the zero correction screw is waaaay out. block the cell out and take a reading and needle should be at 0. if not keep adjusting the screw at the back until needle moves over 0

The meter should be held horizontally while doing this to insure the movement is mechanically balanced. Then, while still blocking all light from reaching the cell, hold the meter vertically and rotate it. It should read zero in any position. If not, the meter armature is unbalanced and will probably be inaccurate, especially at low light levels. I've used Westons with unbalanced armatures by rotating the meter so it reads zero with light blocked from the cell and taking the light reading with the meter held at the same angle. It doesn't perfectly compensate for an unbalanced armature, but it works well enough. If this explanation is confusing, I'll try again in the morning after a good night's sleep.

Weston Master 2 confusion

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Dan Fromm

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Weston Master 2 confusion

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