Werid gap on Svema thin films using Zorki 2C

[ghwilliam1903]

Hi all,


I’m not sure whether this belongs in the analog equipment section or here, but I’d appreciate your advice.

Over the past few months, I’ve been shooting Svema films from Ukraine, including the two movie stocks NK-2SH and A-2SH. Overall, I’ve had great results — both films deliver excellent contrast and a cinematic look.

However, I’ve noticed a recurring issue: the gaps between frames are unusually wide and inconsistent. Given that these films are noticeably thinner than typical still films, I’m unsure whether the problem lies with the film itself or with my camera.

I’m using a Zorki 2C, which loads from the bottom like an old Leica, with the film attached to a take-up spool. This camera has shown no spacing problems when shooting standard-thickness films such as Kentmere 400 or Foma 100, so I’m struggling to identify what might be causing the irregular spacing.

Has anyone experienced similar issues with Svema NK-2SH or A-2SH, or with thin-base films in general?

Since I really enjoy the look of A-2SH, I’d love to figure this out so I can keep using it with confidence.

Thanks in advance for any insights!

 

[Donald Qualls]

Those are consistently off by about one sprocket hole per frame. I wonder if the slightly different shape of the cine sprocket holes could be leading to one skip per frame (potentially due to a rounded-off tooth on the frame counter drive wheel)?

 

[MCB18]

Those are consistently off by about one sprocket hole per frame. I wonder if the slightly different shape of the cine sprocket holes could be leading to one skip per frame (potentially due to a rounded-off tooth on the frame counter drive wheel)?

These films are perfed KS, not BH, so they aren’t motion picture perfs.

I’ve noticed a recurring issue: the gaps between frames are unusually wide and inconsistent. Given that these films are noticeably thinner than typical still films, I’m unsure whether the problem lies with the film itself or with my camera.

Almost certainly the camera. My best guess is that the advance mechanism doesn’t like the thin film. I know that a lot of eastern bloc cameras don’t actually meter the length of film while advancing, but rather advance a certain amount of rotations of the takeup, which relies on the film being around a certain thickness. Thinner film will cause spacing issues if this is the case.

 

[loccdor]

You may be able to add some tape to the take up spool to thicken it and reduce the problem.

I've used Svema Foto 32 and Svema Foto 125 in a Kiev 4 and it spaces the same as any other film. It did rip a little once at the end but it wasn't catastrophic.

 

[Don_ih]

I'm pretty sure the Zorki advance is tied to the rotation of the sprocket shaft - like a Leica II upon which it was based. The take-up spool applies tension to wind the film as it's advanced; since the film is thin, the spool may be pulling the film past the sprockets as it winds.

 

[MCB18]

You may be able to add some tape to the take up spool to thicken it and reduce the problem.

Tape won’t help with this since the film itself is half the thickness of regular film.

I've used Svema Foto 32 and Svema Foto 125 in a Kiev 4 and it spaces the same as any other film. It did rip a little once at the end but it wasn't catastrophic.

The older Svema film is on regular 35mm base, the new stuff is areal film and can be much thinner.

 

[bernard_L]

I know that a lot of eastern bloc cameras don’t actually meter the length of film while advancing, but rather advance a certain amount of rotations of the takeup, which relies on the film being around a certain thickness. Thinner film will cause spacing issues if this is the case.

If that would be the case, the film would advance less than normal; mostly towards the end. Causing frame overlap instead of extra spacing.

You may be able to add some tape to the take up spool to thicken it and reduce the problem.

By the same token, making the take up spool fatter would only worsen the problem.

 

[Nicholas Lindan]

...The take-up spool applies tension to wind the film as it's advanced; since the film is thin, the spool may be pulling the film past the sprockets as it winds.

I second this explanation.

Have you shot any normal thickness film after noticing the problem with the Svema? It is possible the camera just decided to act up at the same time you switched films, and the two have nothing to do with each other.

 

[polaromar]

Are you sure the film latched to the teeth properly, and have you compared it to film on a standard base (eg. Kentmere)? Astrum's Svema NK-2Sh and A-2Sh are respooled Tasma aerial surveillance films. I've not had a problem advancing aerial (including NK-2/Tasma) film in my Voskhod, but it is possible that subtle differences in the sprocket holes are causing issues. I've also had this issue in another stock, where my film wasn't fully engaging the teeth because of myself making a mistake when loading.

If it persists with different films then it would be a mechanical issue.