Well, that was easy...

Donald Qualls

Subscriber
Joined
Jan 19, 2005
Messages
12,294
Location
North Carolina
Format
Multi Format
I just finished developing a roll of Superia X-tra 400, first roll through my "new to me" Kiev 4M, and my first time using Cinestill Cs-41 ("C-41 Simplified" two-bath process, no stabilizer, optional final rinse that appears to be Photoflo with an antifungal added).

About the same level of effort as processing B&W in a poorly heated house in the winter. That is, a sink full of warm water to hold temperature, and a dev timer app on my smart phone. Once everything is warm (39 C), develop 3:45, water rinse one minute, blix 8:00, water wash (minimum 3:00, I gave more like 5:00). Finished with deionized water (=distilled) with a tiny droplet of Dawn dish liquid to avoid lime spots and drop marks, and then hang it. This will be easier yet when I get my darkroom up and running; I spent almost as much time and attention ensuring I didn't risk poisoning any humans, dogs, or cats as I did processing the film.

I've already saved half of what the chemicals cost, compared to my last roll of send-away C-41, and I should be able to process a roll or two a week until the chemistry expires at no additional cost. The real concern is whether I'll shoot enough (color) to get reasonable use out of the chemistry while it lasts. Hmmm. More camera time...
 

Ariston

Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2019
Messages
1,658
Location
Atlanta
Format
Multi Format
I have the same problem. I have to save up rolls of exposed color film in my refrigerator until I have enough to develop all at once.
 

Dusty Negative

Subscriber
Joined
Mar 25, 2019
Messages
585
Location
Virginia
Format
Medium Format
Donald Qualls said:
The real concern is whether I'll shoot enough (color) to get reasonable use out of the chemistry while it lasts. Hmmm. More camera time...
Click to expand...

I've already reached the expiration of one batch, and probably had enough left to develop another five rolls. I can't seem to shoot enough color film. As Ariston said above, I think I'll just start storing the exposed color in the fridge, and then have one hell of a development party. Ultimately, I'm not sure if developing color at home is going to end up being significantly cheaper because I am probably rarely going to exhaust a batch of color Developer.
 

Sirius Glass

Subscriber
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Messages
50,364
Location
Southern California
Format
Multi Format
Do not use dishwashing liquids because they have other chemicals that are not good for film. Use a surfactant like PhotoFlo. Search this subject and PE's well written scientific advice.
 

cmacd123

Subscriber
Joined
May 24, 2007
Messages
4,312
Location
Stittsville, Ontario
Format
35mm
Sirius Glass said:
Do not use dishwashing liquids because they have other chemicals that are not good for film
Click to expand...

and if the kit comes with the "optional rinse" it will likely contain all the water drop preventive you need. As well as anti-fungal and so on. Last step in C-41 is "Final Rinse", then dry.
 
OP
OP

Donald Qualls

Subscriber
Joined
Jan 19, 2005
Messages
12,294
Location
North Carolina
Format
Multi Format
Yes, there's a little bottle of "Final Rinse" with hexamine and photoflo listed as "hazardous" ingredients. I didn't mix it, because I didn't get enough chemical bottles. I might promote an empty Aquafina bottle and mix half of it; that'll be enough for a single 35 mm at a time.
 
OP
OP

Donald Qualls

Subscriber
Joined
Jan 19, 2005
Messages
12,294
Location
North Carolina
Format
Multi Format
Dusty Negative said:
I've already reached the expiration of one batch, and probably had enough left to develop another five rolls.
Click to expand...

The last roll of C-41 I sent off cost me $20 without prints. Apparently, if I use the mailers they sent back with the finished negatives, I can order "negatives only" without scans and save a couple bucks, but at $40 including shipping for the liquid kit (or about half that for the dry chemicals version, which ships USPS Priority instead of HazMat ground), I'm still saving a good bit if it goes off when it's still got half its capacity left. And I'm pretty confident I can get through ten rolls before it loses its kick.
 

jmdavis

Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2005
Messages
523
Location
VA
Format
Large Format
I'm looking into this now too. For both c41 and 120/4x5 e6. Obviously with different chemistry.
 

Dusty Negative

Subscriber
Joined
Mar 25, 2019
Messages
585
Location
Virginia
Format
Medium Format

$20! Yikes. It's something like $8-$10 where I'm at, if I recall correctly. Yep...I'd be developing at home as well.
 
OP
OP

Donald Qualls

Subscriber
Joined
Jan 19, 2005
Messages
12,294
Location
North Carolina
Format
Multi Format
Dusty Negative said:
$20! Yikes. It's something like $8-$10 where I'm at, if I recall correctly. Yep...I'd be developing at home as well.
Click to expand...

The Darkroom, aka Swan Labs, aka Ilford USA. FWIW, they did great work. The shipping was priced in -- after I set up online they had a USPS label to print, postage already paid; there was no separate charge (that I recall) for return shipping, and basic scans (good enough for 5x7 prints) were no extra charge, including a CD/DVD and 60 days of storage on their site to facilitate ordering prints after seeing the images. Those scans covered the sprockets and included the 67 mm frame width, too. I did pay a buck or two extra for no-cut, because the roll was sprocket hole pano shot in my RB67. So, the service was great, but it included a bunch of stuff I can pretty readily do for myself, as well as USPS across the country, twice.

I have negative pages on hand, own a decent scanner (not world class, it's only 1200x2400 ppi and 8 bits per channel, but fine for ordering prints), and even if I only use half its capacity, the chemistry cost me about $4/roll (and as noted above, will be about half that when dry chemical kits come back in stock at Cinestill or other supplier).
 

radiant

Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2019
Messages
2,135
Location
Europe
Format
Hybrid
It isn't hard. Video worth watching if someone is nervous about temperatures etc..

 
OP
OP

Donald Qualls

Subscriber
Joined
Jan 19, 2005
Messages
12,294
Location
North Carolina
Format
Multi Format
To be clear, this was not my first time developing color. We did either E-3 or E-4 (seemed like about fifty steps, but it was really, probably, only about fourteen including water rinses) in my high school photography class (1974), and I processed several rolls of C-41 in two-bath Dignan developer with Flexicolor bleach and separate fix back around 2006 (the two-bath is very temperature tolerant, as two-bath developers usually are). This was, however, my first time using a commercial C-41 kit, and yes, I was a little concerned about the temperature control, but a sink full of water and a decent thermometer makes it easier.

Cinestill's directions include a chart to compensate times for temperature, too; if I had to work at room temperature, as long as the room is a little warmer than is genuinely comfortable, I could (probably at the price of some color shifts or crossover, of course -- stuff I probably won't see anyway, as I apparently have a rather poor eye for overall color despite having a very fine ability to discriminate one color from another).

Over time, I might try a trick I've read about to get maximum life out of color chemistry -- dilution. Apparently, at least according to one worker, it's possible to mix direct from concentrates (which will keep a long time if you can exclude air when you reclose the bottle) to a strength equivalent to 1:10 dilution of the developer (bleach likes oxygen, and fixer is fixer, if you separate the blix components) and use it one-shot with compensated time. This way, you get (up to) around forty rolls out of a one liter kit (depending on tank volume requirements) without time limits on life after mixing. Only works with liquid kits, of course, but the saving on chemistry life offsets the shipping for the liquids if you'd otherwise have your chemical expiring before you can use them up.
 
Last edited:

Agulliver

Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2015
Messages
3,564
Location
Luton, United Kingdom
Format
Multi Format
I've been seriously thinking about getting some C41 chemistry during the partial lockdown....as I have much more time at home. But I am torn, because my local camera shop will hopefully be permitted to reopen before tooooo long and I want to support the shop. They also do C41 dev and scan for just £4 which I probably can't beat doing home development. But I've now got seven C41 films of local wildlife and horses needing to be developed....and part of me wants that Oompa Loompa now!
 
OP
OP

Donald Qualls

Subscriber
Joined
Jan 19, 2005
Messages
12,294
Location
North Carolina
Format
Multi Format
The Cinestill Cs-41 (no stabilizer) powder kit runs just over a dollar a roll including shipping, if you get the powder kit (no ORM-D), or about twice that including shipping for the liquid package. You don't get the (liquid only) final rinse in the powder kit, but PhotoFlo works just as well (theirs is Photoflo with some hexamine added for fungus control). I had to get a liquid kit first time (powder was out of stock), so I plan to just keep the final rinse and reuse it until there's too little, and then make up volume with Photoflo or equivalent. It ought to last many months, unlike the developer which they say is good for two months from mix date (or 20 rolls).
 

MattKing

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Messages
52,935
Location
Delta, BC Canada
Format
Medium Format
Donald,
You need the hexamine as well - the anti-fungal , anti-bacteria component is the most important component of stabilizer.
 
OP
OP

Donald Qualls

Subscriber
Joined
Jan 19, 2005
Messages
12,294
Location
North Carolina
Format
Multi Format
And yet, Cinestill seems to think I don't, since they sell the Cs-41 kit in powder form without the final rinse. "No stabilizer needed" is their claim, then fine print about "films more than 20 years old might need a stabilizer bath with formaldehyde or formalin." They state that the stabilizer is built into modern films, activated by the developer and/or blix, and that this was done to accommodate automatic machines.
 

MattKing

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Messages
52,935
Location
Delta, BC Canada
Format
Medium Format
That is why it isn't called stabilizer any more - it is called final rinse.
Some of the components are now incorporated.
That change was done to replace formaldehyde - a known carcinogen.
PE (Ron Mowrey) sticky thread on just this matter: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/the-definitive-word-i-hope-on-color-stabilzers.89149/
 
OP
OP

Donald Qualls

Subscriber
Joined
Jan 19, 2005
Messages
12,294
Location
North Carolina
Format
Multi Format
So, Cinestill is effectively lying in order to sell product. Say it isn't so!

With that out of the way, is there a reasonably available (ideally local, to avoid that hazmart liquid shipping) source of hexamine that I could add to Photoflo to make my own final rinse? The powder version of C-41 is significantly cheaper, cheaper to ship, and arrives faster (because not ORM-D).
 

MattKing

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Messages
52,935
Location
Delta, BC Canada
Format
Medium Format

Pioneer

Member
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
3,879
Location
Elko, Nevada
Format
Multi Format
I would suggest covering your spices and cookies on the kitchen counter with some plastic the next time you develop.

I have developed color using stand development at normal room temps and things came out pretty good. As you rightly point out, color films are very easy to develop and quite forgiving to both poor exposure and poor development technique.

I would only provide one caution to others considering some of these alternative development methods. If you intend to print in the darkroom the color shifts that you find to be minor may create some problem on the print itself that will be somewhat difficult to correct for. But if you are scanning the film, the scanner and software can certainly help to correct those issues if you decide you need the adjustments. Another issue can be skin tones. If the beach ball turns a bit more orange or blue than it really was this is not quite as much of a problem as it will be if your wife's face turns out with those same color shifts.

With those possible exceptions it can be quite fun playing around with various development methods and color is really not quite the monster to develop that it has been made out to be.

Just be careful with your chemicals around your kitchen and your families food.
 
OP
OP

Donald Qualls

Subscriber
Joined
Jan 19, 2005
Messages
12,294
Location
North Carolina
Format
Multi Format
MattKing said:
Maybe you could find something else to add to an order at Unique Photo to make an order for a $4.98 bottle of C-41 final rinse (makes 5 litres) worth your while:
https://www.uniquephoto.com/kodak-c-41-rinse-replenisher-tm-5-liters-8673170
Click to expand...

That's a reasonable option. Given it's not one-shot, a bottle of concentrate to make five liters ought to last me years. Have to dilute the shipping some, though; $14 to ship $5 worth of final rinse concentrate seems a little steep...
 
OP
OP

Donald Qualls

Subscriber
Joined
Jan 19, 2005
Messages
12,294
Location
North Carolina
Format
Multi Format
Okay, I'm now pretty sure it's not underexposure in my negatives, it's fog from the film being ~15 years old, stored at room temperature. Doesn't hurt B&W much (just print through the extra density and/or give a half to one stop extra exposure), but all the dark areas aren't clean black. Won't know for a while how/if it'll do in optical prints...
 

Jim Blodgett

Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2019
Messages
75
Location
Roy, WA
Format
Multi Format
Donald - Glad to read you had success home processing C41. I was reluctant to try it but when I got back into photography a few years ago I was surprised how expensive AND inconvenient it had become to get my negatives processed. So I studied up on it, watched a few YouTube videos, ordered a batch and gave it a try.

The one thing I would say is to get ahead a batch or two of chemicals. The brand I have been using is only good for (I think they recommend) 8 rolls of 120, more 35mm but you get the point, and summer - fall 2019 it was hard to find any available. Film Photography Project, B+H, Freestyle, my local film store in Seattle, all of them were back ordered and unsure when they would get supplied. I THINK a lot of those powder kits come from one manufacturer and when they get behind or have a glitch in a production run it really affects availability.

So I try to keep at least one kit on the shelf in addition to the one I have mixed up in my bottles.
 

Sirius Glass

Subscriber
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Messages
50,364
Location
Southern California
Format
Multi Format
I recommend that the first time one does C-41 processing, do the first batch with fresh film.
 
OP
OP

Donald Qualls

Subscriber
Joined
Jan 19, 2005
Messages
12,294
Location
North Carolina
Format
Multi Format
As a matter of fact, I just received an order from Cinestill with a powder kit of Df96 (B&W monobath) and one of Cs-41 (two-bath C-41, no stabilizer). My ongoing plan is to order one C-41 kit whenever I mix one, or as nearly as my budget allows. Powder when I can, liquid if I must (liquid costs about twice as much because of higher purchase price and slower/more expensive ground hazmat shipping).

That said, I have chemicals on hand, and I can mix my own color developer if needed, make bleach from cyanotype chems, and fix with, well, fixer (got a couple big jugs of C-41 fixer stored away, but B&W rapid fixer is the same with the possible exception of hardening effect). I'll reserve mixing my own for when I can't get commercial chems on time or that I can afford -- twenty to twenty-five bucks shipped for a C-41 powder kit is cheap enough I won't bother to mix my own as long as I can get the kits.

BTW, someone has confused you (quite possibly by intent). A roll of 120 is the same area, near enough, as a 135 36 exposure (or four sheets of 4x5 or a single 8x10). Your chemicals should be able to handle the same number of rolls of either size. I don't know what brand you have or what volume of solution it makes; but Cinestill says their Cs-41 is good for 20 rolls. I'd have to go reread the instructions to check, but I'm almost certain they recommend adding time as you use up the capacity. Yes, some of the process Nazis are likely to come in and say you'll get color shifts, crossovers you can't filter out, and so forth -- but unless you're making actual optical prints, and have the eyes of a lifetime color printer, you'll probably never know the difference from adding (a small increment at a time) a couple minutes to your C-41 development time to compensate for prior processing of eight rolls.

 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Menu
Log in
Register
Cookies are required to use this site. You must accept them to continue using the site. Learn more…