Well, finally made it into a real shooting !

[Alexz]

Wow, yesterday at last was able to devote few hours to my hobby so went out into fields to try out finally my 4x5 for the first time. Long talken, spoken, discussed and evaluated (in theory), but unfortunately couldn't make to the real shooting earlier.
Anyway, shot my first 4 sheets. Nothing spectacular, just to start to catch up with my LF and basic gear test. Nevertheless, took me over 2 hours to shoot just 4 sheets, but a lot of joy. Have yet developed the slides (I shoot slides almost exclusively), will have them ready tomorrow and can't wait already to see how it turned out...
Have several impovement issues generated by this first session:
1. I need to weighten down my dark cloth. Albeit being large and not that featherlight, it turns into large sail even at moderate wind. I think it would be necessary to sew some kind of weights at the lower edge of the cloth to keep it calm at the wind. What your opinions/suggesttions to cope with that ?
2. 90mm lens on my Shen-Hao gets quite stiff on movements (albeit still usable in most cases applicable to landscape work) due to bellows compression. Still was able to operate a necessary (slight) movements with this lens set (thanks to God wider lens requires less movements in general comparative to the longer one). Perhaps in some future, if I'll find myself using 90mm lens often, I'll opt for wide angle bellows (or recessed board).
3. Perhaps 4 holders aren't enough for a serious session (though bearing in mind my slow shooting approach I doubt more then 8 sheets can be considered for a session unless I'll get more acquinted with LF).
4. Sticking the holder inside shakes entire camera. (the back door is spring loaded so pulling it away for holder insertion applies a force more then necessary to shake or even move the camera). This is a real concern since may disturb the precise composition one spent lot of time to built, and once the holder inside no tuning can be made to the composition. How do you guys cope with this issue ?

By this session I also tested my recently acquired Pentax Digital Spotmeter (Zone VI modified) - all measurements were done by it (followed by appropriate Zone application) as opposite to using my heavy 35mm SLR system just as a spot meter.

Tomorrow I'll be picking the processed transparancies, then probably more conclusions and action bullets will be inferred.
Meanwhile, will be glad to hear your opinion regarding dark cloth downweighting, whether 90mm indeed will be better used with wide angle bellows/recessed board and holder insertion vs camera shake issue.

Regards, Alex

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

Careful with darkcloth weights. It hasn't happened to me, but I have heard of cases where the weights have broken the groundglass. You might do better with velcro to wrap the groundglass around the camera.

 

[Pinholemaster]

Be careful about velco for the dark cloth too. If the dark cloth is velcoed too strongly to the camera, when it becomes a sail, it will pull the camera over.

For weights, which I worry about for the above mentioned groundglass, you can get small rubber coated spring clamps from the hardware store. I prefer bright orange so they are seen, instead of black that blend into the dark cloth. Easy to remove when it's not windy.

Perhaps one of these will serve you well. http://www.badgergraphic.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=675

I have one for my 8x10 camera. I never leave it attached to the camera in the wind when I move away from the camera to change a setting or get something.

 

[Alexz]

Thanks David, but my dark closth doesn't catch up directly onto ground class holding assembly but rather on the entire back of the camera (I had elastic bad sewed around one top of the cloth so it "gets weared" over the camera back). The problem is not that it gets off the camera, but rather that the entire cloth is blown by the wind and tends to become a sail causing a mjor incovenience once shooting.
Perhaps however, in stronger winds your case may become a consideration...

 

[Alexz]

Just edited by original post by an additional issue (No 4). Will be grateful if you could respond and share your experience in this regard.

Alex

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

As to the other issues--

Yeah, for a 90mm lens with most cameras a bag bellows or recessed lensboard is a good idea.

It's good to have more holders, so you can keep them loaded, say, with two or three types of film or have them ready when you need them. Used 4x5" holders are plentiful and not too costly.

Regarding the issue of moving the camera when inserting the holder--make sure everything is locked down, that your tripod and head are adequate, and practice. Some cameras are sturdier than others, and some have conveniences like a bail that makes it easier to open the back carefully and insert the holder, but even if you have a light camera with a heavy spring, it should be a matter of technique.

 

[roteague]

Now, we just need to get you shooting Velvia.

 

[Alexz]

Yes, I lock down everything, but the spring tension seems to be quite stiff coparative to camera's weight. Opening it away to insert the holder may move the entire setup (since each individual piece is locked down). I tried to apply both of my hands to open the tray whilst holding the camera trying to prevent it from any movement. Perhaps indeed a matter of technique and experience, but I think the spring may have to be a bit less hard given particular camera weight.

Robert, you may still calm , Velvia used to be my main choice for landscapes in either 35mm or MF. However, once diving into LF, I managed to obtain a large amount of Kodak slide stock (one 50 sheets box os slightly outdated E100s and two 50 sheets boxes of fresh E100G) quite cheaply (at least considerably cheaper then on our local market). I was initially indeed looking for Velvia 50 or 100 (not 100F) boxes, but this turned to be much harder to locate (ven on Ebay) for a price considerably cheaper then bought in our local pro shops, so meanwhile I jumped on E100 opportunity.
Perhaps once I'll get a bit more acquinted with my LF and see myself shooting more sheets then I manage so far, I'll convert to Velvia.

 

[grahamp]

If you want to weight your dark cloth - there are advantages and disadvantages - you can get small lead weights to sew on from fabric or drapery shops (they are used to weight curtains). On my commercially made cloth the weights are sewn into the corners. In windy conditions use a smaller cloth - or clip it together - so that it is denser and has a smaller area.

If you pull the spring back open by using some fingers of one hand to lift the edge while the others push against the camera body you should be able to insert the slide part way without disturbing the camera. You can lever the holder a little to get the locking ridge into place. Practice builds confidence.

 

[Alexz]

Yes, ceratinly. This is the way I did inserting the holders (pulling the dor away whilst pushing by other fingers against the camera body to compernsate for this applied force), but still the situation seems to be prone to shake/system displacement. Indeed sounds to be a matter of practice though.
Will have to rethink dark cloth weighting issue, perhaps will come up with more effective solution....

 

[Thomassauerwein]

The Shen Hao does require a gentle touch. Also double check and re-check that the film holder is seated properly. It is a great camera for the price but care while using it is important. I have tons of 4X5 holders you are welcome top some. PM me and once they are un-packed I send them your way. (For the cost of shipping) Probably sometime in March.

 

[Paul Sorensen]

I suspect that you are not getting movement at the lock down points of the camera or tripod when you load film, but rather a sort of a spring action of the parts of the camera. If so, give it a second after you place the holder in and it will calm down and reset to its original position. I have noticed this shake, although with mine it is much less pronounced than with my Cambo that I had before the Shen. I have never had a problem with losing my position, but I have noticed the shake. Being as gentle as possible and working deliberately will prevent problems.

 

[Alexz]

Thank you Thomas for your kind offer, much appreciation. I'll PM you soon.
Paul besides of what yo have described here, what I meant is that pulling teh door away requires applying a force enough to eventially displace the entire camera with tripod if not holding them in particular. (not a problem of lightweight tripod - mine is a heavy one). So I figure I just have to be careful enough to prevent the thing from displacement once opening the door.

 

[Alexz]

Well, just picked the transparancies. Of course, first attempt will never go smooth..
The turned out to be exposed indeed, but severely underexposed and covered by very strong reddish cast. According to lab's opinion (I used to trust them being their long-term customer) it may be caused by improper loading of the sheets, i.e. loading they so that the back side of teh sheet is facing teh lens rather then the emulsion side.
After that, the guy described how the sheet shall be positioned for loading and then I realized that I indeed loaded it upside down. I.e. having the holder held in my left hand (with flap opened of course), I picked the sheet with notches at the upper corner and accordnig to teh lab they shall be at the lower corner.
I'm going to reshoot teh session probably tomorrow and now will load the holders the way he described (making the notches at the lower corner), then hopefully will obtain a results worth of any further consideration.

 

[Paul Sorensen]

Well, just picked the transparancies. Of course, first attempt will never go smooth..
The turned out to be exposed indeed, but severely underexposed and covered by very strong reddish cast. According to lab's opinion (I used to trust them being their long-term customer) it may be caused by improper loading of the sheets, i.e. loading they so that the back side of teh sheet is facing teh lens rather then the emulsion side.
After that, the guy described how the sheet shall be positioned for loading and then I realized that I indeed loaded it upside down. I.e. having the holder held in my left hand (with flap opened of course), I picked the sheet with notches at the upper corner and accordnig to teh lab they shall be at the lower corner.
I'm going to reshoot teh session probably tomorrow and now will load the holders the way he described (making the notches at the lower corner), then hopefully will obtain a results worth of any further consideration.

Bummer. Well, you just have to get back on that horse. There are plenty of similar mistakes to make doing large format, so this is just your initiation. I am sure that things will get a lot better. If you haven't already, take a look at some of mthe humorous threads here about mistakes people make when doing LF or any kind of photography. You are not alone.

 

[Alexz]

Yeah Paul, I don't plan to hang on this. This is quite expectable and this kind of mistake is actually an easy one. I'm going to redo the whole thing hopefully tomorrow (weather-permitting).

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

Yup, that's a familiar mistake. With the sheet oriented vertically the notch should be in the upper right or lower left corner. I like to load the sheets with the notch in the lower left corner near the flap, so that if I ever end up in a situation where I don't know what kind of film is in the holder, I can check it quickly in the darkroom or a changing bag without having to remove the sheet from the holder. I also label the holders, though, so it's a bit like wearing a belt and suspenders.

 

[Alexz]

Thank you guys for your support .
Already reloaded the holder to be ready for a second attempt. Hopefully this time I'll make it right (at least oading-wise). However albeit managing to load properly this time, I turned to be stupid enough switching on the lights in the room forgetting to pack away the opened film pack :-0. One of the ends of the paper pack was torn in order to pull out the sheets to be loaded into holders, so I just forgot to pack it away into boxes prior to swithing on the lights. Now I guess the near-edge area of several sheets on the top of the batch will be fogged.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

Alex- bummer about the exposed film. Hope some of it is salvageable. As to the bag bellows vs recessed board, with the Shen I would opt for the bag bellows. Recessed boards are very limiting because they make it hard to get to the controls on your shutter, unless you have a very tiny shutter, or a really large lensboard (which the Shen does not). Also, I think you will find the tightness you experienced on loading filmholders into the camera will decrease once you have used the camera a bit. I have had mine for about four years now, and it works very smoothly and easily, without being too loose. I think it took me about a half-dozen shoots with the camera to break it in properly.

 

[Alexz]

Thanks for the encouragement. I'm going to take thes econd try this Sunday.
I think I'll take a bit more time to get acquinted more with LF and my gear in particular, then will probably acquire a bag bellows for 90mm.