We need more civility and patience here

Truzi · Oct 26, 2020

This is a cyclic thing. It never truly goes away here, but does regularly flare. It has done this before COVID and will after.

I do expect things like this to some extent in any community, virtual or real; people are varied - it's bound to happen.
To me the important part is that it is dealt with fairly, consistently, proactively, and thoughtfully. My complaint has always been about the lack of these things.

There are many people I miss on this forum - people with a great deal of experience who always shared their knowledge, gave helpful suggestions, and contributed to the off-topic conversation and banter that creates community. Some made grand exits, some ghosted, but their last few posts generally expressed similar misgivings.

awty · Oct 26, 2020

Too many princesses and not enough tiaras to go around.

MattKing · Oct 26, 2020

awty said:
Too many princesses and not enough tiaras to go around.

Given my last name, I'm sure you will understand why I say: "How about crowns!?"
(said with the hope that it will be appreciated as an attempt at humour)

BrianShaw · Oct 26, 2020

I don’t get it.

Cholentpot · Oct 26, 2020

MattKing said:
Given my last name, I'm sure you will understand why I say: "How about crowns!?"
(said with the hope that it will be appreciated as an attempt at humour)

As an American references to royalty offend me.

MattKing · Oct 26, 2020

Cholentpot said:
As an American references to royalty offend me.

That is funny, given how much more popular (as compared to respected) anything "royal" seems to be on your side of the line!
I will avoid the temptation of making the political comparisons and observations that would be so inappropriate here.

Andrew O'Neill · Oct 26, 2020

MattKing said:
That is funny, given how much more popular (as compared to respected) anything "royal" seems to be on your side of the line!
I will avoid the temptation of making the political comparisons and observations that would be so inappropriate here.

Haha that's sounds like something my mum would say!

MattKing · Oct 27, 2020

Andrew O'Neill said:
Haha that's sounds like something my mum would say!

In the spirit of this thread:
"It is always a good idea to listen to your mother"
(if the opportunity is there).

Ko.Fe. · Oct 27, 2020

Storm in the tea spoon

I didn't find any diffrence between any film formats. Developer is developer and print is print with any format.
LF is nothing really special in this regard. Maybe OP is talking about collodium? This one is very special and LF is the only way for it.
And it is difficult one for sure, coming from digital or from Minox.
Where I'm here is one store where I'm older customer. Most are young ones. Who are as it is mentioned in OP, into film.
Many with 135 and MF cameras. Well, all of them. Haven't seen young ones with LF so far, where I'm. Even on planare. It was me and older.

5x7shooter · Oct 27, 2020

I am reluctant to comment, but a few thoughts may be worth noting. Also, as many posters noted, it's far too easy to misunderstand on the Internet with only ambiguous text to interpret. A good reason to check fire while checking out the situation. Of course, I was my own object lesson there. .

A lot of people agreed with the OP sentiment and indicated that they were on the verge of avoiding this forum for that reason. Suggesting that this is because they are snowflakes or princesses or PC or whatever misses what they are saying It's not about PC or sensitivity, but rather just being respectful and substantive when disagreeing with others. There are no extra points in life for being disagreeable or trying to one-up, be defensive etc. Might I suggest that if a beginner's question is irritating to someone, just ignore it and let someone else help them. LF information is extensive but scattered, and unsystematic. Beginners have a hard enough time getting started as it is.

My suggestion about civility, humility and kindness actually first originated from three close friends, one a retired infantry general, one a retired Airborne colonel, and one a 30 year fighter pilot/wing commander. All three emphasize the modern US military leadership approach that involves treating people with respect and building consensus. These guys are real warriors with scars, not Internet warriors.

Some of the other comments suggest that anyone who urges less contentious discourse is some sort of snowflake or princess, to use some terms. I suppose that was referencing me as the OP. I will not go into specifics, but factually that's very, very far from the truth. 'Nough said.

awty · Oct 27, 2020

MattKing said:
Given my last name, I'm sure you will understand why I say: "How about crowns!?"
(said with the hope that it will be appreciated as an attempt at humour)

Only room for one king around here.
Hale King Matt.

awty · Oct 27, 2020

Cholentpot said:
As an American references to royalty offend me.

You at least get to vote for your princesses.

5x7shooter · Oct 27, 2020

Alan Edward Klein said:
I never saw your post. But from what I can read from others, apparently I said something that upset you. I apologize for that. That was not my intent. I was trying to be lighthearted and ironic. It's easy to take stuff that goes on here too seriously. We shouldn't do that, in my opinion. It's often hard to get comfort in forums, hence the point of my post.

Hi, Alan. Not a problem at all. My apologies to you are also due. I was not sure how to interpret the post and then deleted my reply as very possibly wrong, but the responses of others linger on.< wry GG on myself.>

My own aging eyes did not help as the small smiley face was hard to decipher on the screen and I thought that I saw an exclamation point instead. I realize my own error. The Internet can be ambiguous and learning to check fire is becoming an important modern skill.

Thank you for your own understanding.

Best regards

Cholentpot · Oct 27, 2020

MattKing said:
That is funny, given how much more popular (as compared to respected) anything "royal" seems to be on your side of the line!
I will avoid the temptation of making the political comparisons and observations that would be so inappropriate here.

Rather eat something by choice then be force fed.

awty said:
You at least get to vote for your princesses.

At least we have the freedom to mess up eh?

Ko.Fe. said:
Storm in the tea spoon

I didn't find any diffrence between any film formats. Developer is developer and print is print with any format.
LF is nothing really special in this regard. Maybe OP is talking about collodium? This one is very special and LF is the only way for it.
And it is difficult one for sure, coming from digital or from Minox.
Where I'm here is one store where I'm older customer. Most are young ones. Who are as it is mentioned in OP, into film.
Many with 135 and MF cameras. Well, all of them. Haven't seen young ones with LF so far, where I'm. Even on planare. It was me and older.

As a young'n shooting LF I can tell you that loading, shooting and developing 110 can be just as hard if not harder.

Alan Edward Klein · Oct 27, 2020

5x7shooter said:
Hi, Alan. Not a problem at all. My apologies to you are also due. I was not sure how to interpret the post and then deleted my reply as very possibly wrong, but the responses of others linger on.< wry GG on myself.>

My own aging eyes did not help as the small smiley face was hard to decipher on the screen and I thought that I saw an exclamation point instead. I realize my own error. The Internet can be ambiguous and learning to check fire is becoming an important modern skill.

Thank you for your own understanding.

Best regards

Thanks. I'm glad we got it straightened out.

Ko.Fe. · Oct 27, 2020

Cholentpot said:
Rather eat something by choice then be force fed.

At least we have the freedom to mess up eh?

As a young'n shooting LF I can tell you that loading, shooting and developing 110 can be just as hard if not harder.

Try original Minox. From slitting film to get it into cassette and to develop it in special tank.
Large Format is giant LEGO after it.

Cholentpot · Oct 27, 2020

Ko.Fe. said:
Try original Minox. From slitting film to get it into cassette and to develop it in special tank.
Large Format is giant LEGO after it.

I'm going to get hold of one of these some day and then I'll fall down that hole.

radiant · Oct 27, 2020

Andrew O'Neill said:
Haha that's sounds like something my mum would say!

Plot twist: MattKing is actually your mother!

BrianShaw · Oct 27, 2020

Lock this thread now... it’s out of control!

radiant · Oct 27, 2020

My post will be probably edited out because it is off-topic

Ko.Fe. · Oct 27, 2020

Cholentpot said:
I'm going to get hold of one of these some day and then I'll fall down that hole.

I collected full set for Minox. Camera, tripod, film holders, developing tanks, film, original enlarger and else. Printed couple of pictures and sold it quick.

Andrew O'Neill · Oct 27, 2020

vedostuu said:
Plot twist: MattKing is actually your mother!

Too bad I didn't inherit his brains...

Dan Fromm · Oct 27, 2020

5x7shooter said:
Some of the hallmarks and apt criticisms of fanboy digital photo forums, such as those now based in Seattle, are tendencies toward putting others down, one-upsmanship, and the lack of civility and patience by posters, both OP and responses.

That seems to be happening more frequently here and in other large format forums. It's making large format forums unpleasant, even to bystanders. No wonder there's a lack of manufacturer and non-in-group participation.

Large format photography is becoming increasingly popular with a new generation of photographers seeking a thoughtful alternative to digital imaging, but while they're interested, there's much to learn, large format information is largely scattered, too-often unreliable subjective opinion, and generally hard to find with any reliability.

In the absence of clear information in one place, it's difficult, expensive, and uncertain for anyone, let alone a beginner, to put together an optimized large format outfit and use it effectively. That's why people turn to this forum for advice, hopefully objective, useful advice..

Might I suggest that more understanding, kindness and patience is needed? Also, some keep trying to one-up others or putting them down. Might I also suggest that some tact and humility are needed?

Let's keep these forums an appropriate and pleasant way to exchange opinions and learn from each other about areas where comprehensive, objective information about our craft and our gear are becoming muddied with the passage of time.

Thicker skins, slowness to take offense would be helpful too.

OP, this is not a good place to learn about LF. It is filled with people who want to be helpful but who don't know enough to be helpful. The French LF forum is the best LF site I know of, followed by the US LF forum. The level of nastiness in all is low, nothing like what popped up on usenet that used to be.

OP, you made assertions about people leaving because of nastiness and about the size of the ignore list. Please name names, give numbers and list your sources. Unsupported generalizations lack credibility.

Andrew O'Neill · Oct 27, 2020

Dan Fromm said:
Thicker skins, slowness to take offense would be helpful too.

OP, this is not a good place to learn about LF. It is filled with people who want to be helpful but who don't know enough to be helpful. The French LF forum is the best LF site I know of, followed by the US LF forum. The level of nastiness in all is low, nothing like what popped up on usenet that used to be.

OP, you made assertions about people leaving because of nastiness and about the size of the ignore list. Please name names, give numbers and list your sources. Unsupported generalizations lack credibility.

I'm a large format shooter, but I hang out here more than I do at LFF... I just like it here, more than there.

Cholentpot · Oct 27, 2020

Ko.Fe. said:
I collected full set for Minox. Camera, tripod, film holders, developing tanks, film, original enlarger and else. Printed couple of pictures and sold it quick.

I never sell...

Andrew O'Neill said:
I'm a large format shooter, but I hang out here more than I do at LFF... I just like it here, more than there.

Nice place. Here.

We need more civility and patience here

Truzi

awty

MattKing

Moderator

BrianShaw

Cholentpot

MattKing

Moderator

Andrew O'Neill

Moderator

MattKing

Moderator

Ko.Fe.

5x7shooter

awty

awty

5x7shooter

Cholentpot

Alan Edward Klein

Ko.Fe.

Cholentpot

radiant

BrianShaw

radiant

Ko.Fe.

Andrew O'Neill

Moderator

Dan Fromm

Andrew O'Neill

Moderator

Cholentpot

We need more civility and patience here

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Moderator

Moderator

Moderator

Moderator

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