Washing Drier Fabric, How do you dry prints?

[mshchem]

I'm going through one of my Pako bench top driers (strictly for fiber base) I don't use them as much as I used to. Pako says belts are machine washable. Is there anyone that deems themselves an expert on dryer canvas? I know of no one that carries belts for these and the large flat Arkay beasts. There's US grading systems for Cotton "Duck" fabric. Does anyone know the specifics of weight and weave etc?

I'm planning on washing my belt in a front load machine, gently with warm water and a standard detergent.

35 years ago, I had a young man's fantasy that I should soak the belt in hypo clearing agent, don't know why. It just seemed to make sense to me, kind of like blood letting for cholera. Getting the bad spirits out. Don't plan to repeat.

I have a 20 inch wide capacity Ilfospeed dryer for RC. Drys an RC 11 X14 to a brilliant gloss in about 15 seconds.

I love these machines, I would be lost without them
Best Regards Mike

 

[darkroommike]

I don't have the specs but I seem to recall seeing new belts somewhere, where I worked, ages ago, we washed out belt and put it through a commercial spinner (centrifuge type) and then put the belt back on wet and let the dryer dry the belt. I have tried washing the flat canvas sheets on old flatbed dryers with poor results (not my dryer but one in a communal darkroom) and the belt was too far gone, it fell to shreds in the washer. For RC I now use a forced air dryer and for FB a blotter dryer (smaller but like the old Burke and James. If you are the only one using your blotters it is a workable solution. The prints dry flat as board. I get my photo blotters from blotter books which I disassemble and then cut to size. These dryers also use plain old corrugated cardboard, not as issue because the water wicks from the blotters into the cardboard rather than the other way around.

 

[Patrick Robert James]

Not sure I would use regular detergent since it might end up staying in the fabric a bit. Maybe use Sulfite, Borax or Carbonate. Don't dry the canvas off the machine whatever you do. You will never get it back on once it is dry.

I have a large clamshell/flatbed dryer that works fine but doesn't really produce a flat print. I more often use it to flatten prints after they are dry by turning up the heat all the way then placing a stack of prints in it against their curve and turning off the heat. After a couple hours, the prints are fairly flat.

I think the best dryer is one Mike alluded to above. Salt Hill used to make one IIRC, and someone here described how to build one (Rheinhold?). Basically it is a stack of cardboard and light fabric (Pellon?). It won't be fast, but it will dry the prints flat. I have been meaning to build one myself.

Edit- It was bugging me so I looked it up- http://classicbwphoto.com/classicBWphoto/Print_Drier.html

In this version though he uses blotter paper. The one I am thinking about uses a fabric. Not a fan of blotter paper. I would rather set it and forget it.

 

[Bob Carnie]

face down on screen Air dry overnight... Gum and palladium prints I hang to dry off a line with clips once again over night in a 45% humidity environment

 

[darkroommike]

Not sure I would use regular detergent since it might end up staying in the fabric a bit. Maybe use Sulfite, Borax or Carbonate. Don't dry the canvas off the machine whatever you do. You will never get it back on once it is dry.

I have a large clamshell/flatbed dryer that works fine but doesn't really produce a flat print. I more often use it to flatten prints after they are dry by turning up the heat all the way then placing a stack of prints in it against their curve and turning off the heat. After a couple hours, the prints are fairly flat.

I think the best dryer is one Mike alluded to above. Salt Hill used to make one IIRC, and someone here described how to build one (Rheinhold?). Basically it is a stack of cardboard and light fabric (Pellon?). It won't be fast, but it will dry the prints flat. I have been meaning to build one myself.

I have plans for one of these somewhere, it's in The Peterson Guide to Photo Equipment You Can Make, By Parry C. Yob and editors. You can also just build a sandwich of carboard, photo blotters, and prints and direct air over the stack with a box fan and get perfect results overnight. There's a copy of the book on Amazon for $1.99, I hesitate to publish the plans here since Peterson Publishing is still in business.

 

[mshchem]

I don't have the specs but I seem to recall seeing new belts somewhere, where I worked, ages ago, we washed out belt and put it through a commercial spinner (centrifuge type) and then put the belt back on wet and let the dryer dry the belt. I have tried washing the flat canvas sheets on old flatbed dryers with poor results (not my dryer but one in a communal darkroom) and the belt was too far gone, it fell to shreds in the washer. For RC I now use a forced air dryer and for FB a blotter dryer (smaller but like the old Burke and James. If you are the only one using your blotters it is a workable solution. The prints dry flat as board. I get my photo blotters from blotter books which I disassemble and then cut to size. These dryers also use plain old corrugated cardboard, not as issue because the water wicks from the blotters into the cardboard rather than the other way around.

I have washed these before, I did it by hand because of fear of destroying the belt. I have the manual and know the bit about putting the belt on the machine to dry. I'm the only one allowed in my darkroom except for my cat Phoebe, who loves to lay in the sinks. So I'm never putting prints on that aren't very well washed.
I was looking at Hank's Photo Service website, looks like they have a Huuuuge blotter type drier. Clean is the answer.

As a kid I remember rolling up 4 x 5 Medalist prints in my Dad's Kodak Photo Blotter roll, then sitting it on the register of our old, converted from coal, gravity furnace. Seemed to take forever.

With my Pako I get nice flat prints with Dbl. Wt FB, dried emulsion towards the belt. One thing I have found out the hard way, I use hardening fixer. Without hardener the prints would stick to the belt. Hardener increases toning and wash times a bit. If I want something fast I use RC paper. The Ilford RC driers literally melt the gelatin and the gloss is incredible.

I found a Tide HE product with 3 different enzymes, amylase etc. I'm going to try delicate cycle, very dilute detergent.

Thanks to everyone for the input. Best Mike

 

[mgb74]

If you're concerned about residual chemical on the canvas, I'd soak it in as large a volume of water as practical, for as long as is practical, with as many changes of water as practical. Then wash as you described. Traditional washing may work well for dirt, but might (I stress might) work as well for chemicals in the canvas.

 

[AgX]

I'm planning on washing my belt in a front load machine, gently with warm water and a standard detergent.

"Standard detergent" is a vague term. Best use a detergent that contains some kind of Protease. If it says on the packaging that it is not suited for silk, then you very likely got the right stuff.

 

[MattKing]

I would be tempted to use water only, and the "Rinse and Spin" program on our washer.

 

[mshchem]

I washed my belt in our LG vertical axis washer. Used a Tide (P&G brand) ultra stain fighter. According to what I could find this product contains, protease, amylase, and lipase enzymes. Seemed to work fine. I put the belt back on damp (spin dryed) still a bit of a task. Everything works fine. All the stickers are to remind me what not to do. Kind of brute force method, but you don't need to wait overnight to see that you didn't allow for dry down changes. Best Mike

 

[mshchem]

I don't have the specs but I seem to recall seeing new belts somewhere, where I worked, ages ago, we washed out belt and put it through a commercial spinner (centrifuge type) and then put the belt back on wet and let the dryer dry the belt. I have tried washing the flat canvas sheets on old flatbed dryers with poor results (not my dryer but one in a communal darkroom) and the belt was too far gone, it fell to shreds in the washer. For RC I now use a forced air dryer and for FB a blotter dryer (smaller but like the old Burke and James. If you are the only one using your blotters it is a workable solution. The prints dry flat as board. I get my photo blotters from blotter books which I disassemble and then cut to size. These dryers also use plain old corrugated cardboard, not as issue because the water wicks from the blotters into the cardboard rather than the other way around.

There's one of these old Burke and James, screen/blotter outfits on ebay, the person wants a fortune. We have a Dick Blick store in Iowa City, I may look and see what they have for blotters. I've used the Pako dryers for the last 30 years without any problems, (Except when I forgot the hardening fixer) I probably will keep using. I know that the archival folks despise these things. But I sure like being to review my results after printing.

I know this. It takes me at least, a couple of sessions to figure out the right contrasts, densities etc. The prints always look so much different dry, than wet from the washer.
Best, Mike

 

[john_s]

I suppose you would need to wash out traces of fixer and those silver/fixer complexes that are what we use wash aid for, and gelatin (protein) from the emulsion. Maybe the OP's idea of sulphite rinse aid isn't such a bad idea. Then an enzyme cleaner for the gelatin, as mentioned in previous posts. Then an exceptionally long rinse.

I have cleaned my flat bed dryer cloth in oxygen bleach (nappy/diaper soaker) which is less destructive than chlorine bleach, followed by a long rinse. Dried it on the dryer. Looked good! Prints are holding up at this stage (15 years). Admittedly not an archival test.

 

[bsdunek]

I have washed the covers on my Premier flip-over dryer a couple of times. I put them in the washing machine set on cold water and gentle. Use a minimum of Tide or Downy. Never had a problem.
I actually don't use a dryer much. My favorite is blotter rolls which are hard to find these days. I have several and use them carefully.

 

[darkroommike]

There's one of these old Burke and James, screen/blotter outfits on ebay, the person wants a fortune. We have a Dick Blick store in Iowa City, I may look and see what they have for blotters. I've used the Pako dryers for the last 30 years without any problems, (Except when I forgot the hardening fixer) I probably will keep using. I know that the archival folks despise these things. But I sure like being to review my results after printing.

I know this. It takes me at least, a couple of sessions to figure out the right contrasts, densities etc. The prints always look so much different dry, than wet from the washer.
Best, Mike

Yeah that dryer has been listed and relisted many times. For blotters I buy Doran blotter books and take them apart. I bought my 11x14 "Midge-O" at a camera swap in Minneapolis many years ago, for the occasional 16x20 I just use a blotter sandwich on the counter and a box fan overnight.

 

[DAK]

I just lay them image side up on blotters. Flatten them when dry in a print flatten-er I picked up from e-bay. Works like a plant press.

 

[Doremus Scudder]

I air-dry my prints on screens, face-up. I've had drying marks, even from clean screens, when drying face down. I like the air-dried surface of glossy FB paper. Screens are normal fiberglass window screening and see only fully-washed prints.

Best,

Doremus

 

[Arklatexian]

If you're concerned about residual chemical on the canvas, I'd soak it in as large a volume of water as practical, for as long as is practical, with as many changes of water as practical. Then wash as you described. Traditional washing may work well for dirt, but might (I stress might) work as well for chemicals in the canvas.

I don't recommend this because it might not work, but why use a detergent at all? Why not wash the belt in plain water, twice, before drying unless the belt is very, very dirty. If so, rinse, rinse, rinse before drying. Also don't take too long before putting the belt back on the dryer for drying. I had a Besseler belt shrink before I got it reinstalled and had to buy a new one. Something that might be impossible to do today........Regards!

 

[mshchem]

I don't recommend this because it might not work, but why use a detergent at all? Why not wash the belt in plain water, twice, before drying unless the belt is very, very dirty. If so, rinse, rinse, rinse before drying. Also don't take too long before putting the belt back on the dryer for drying. I had a Besseler belt shrink before I got it reinstalled and had to buy a new one. Something that might be impossible to do today........Regards!

I machine washed the belt, it came out fine. Your observation about getting the belt back on as soon as possible is a good one. Before I put the belt in the washer I polished the drum, cleaned up the rollers etc. The belt definitely shrank a bit in the washer. I pulled the belt out of the washer and put it right back on the dryer. Was a bit of a struggle. Once I got the belt on I gradually increased the tension until the belt dried, and stretched back out. Now it works fine. I would caution about machine washing a belt that was fragile, next time I will hand wash.
I have an e-mail in to Pakor, yes they are still alive and doing quite well. I got a nice reply from a customer service person. They are checking to see if anyone still can supply a belt.
I may just take a sewing class and make a couple
Best Mike

 

[mshchem]

Miracles never cease. I called Pakor, They are making me NEW belts. I had to order 3 belts (min. order) price was very reasonable $115 ea, last price I could find was from 15 years ago of $85. I have two of these dryers so I will use the belts. The older dryer belt has a date code from 1966, the newer was 1970. I was amazed, very nice and helpful folks. I talked to Debbie Prigge dprigge@pakor.com A very helpful lady, I asked she got a quote and got back to me in just a few days.

The history of Pako is quite amazing started in 1910 by Glen M. Dye described online as an "itinerant postcard photographer"

I'm really looking forward to getting my machines in tune. I'm about to retire, and I'm going to have a ball printing photos. Old school fun.
Best Regards, Mike

 

[Saganich]

I gave up on mine because the fiber prints kept sticking. Tried washing and cleaning and polishing but nothing seemed to help. I just use stacked window screens and a dry mount press if they get too curly...but they don't.

 

[mshchem]

I gave up on mine because the fiber prints kept sticking. Tried washing and cleaning and polishing but nothing seemed to help. I just use stacked window screens and a dry mount press if they get too curly...but they don't.

I only have had prints stick if I don't use a hardening fixer. Ilford has had great success with promoting very short fixing times with rapid fix w/o hardener. Probably the best course as this is what all the experts say.

I'm somewhat of an antediluvian, I like doing things the way it was done 50 years ago. This includes using hardening fixers (Kodak F6), hypo clearing agent, toning every print, and washing and washing. All at 68 to 70 F. I can dry a DW print in less than 6 minutes. By the end of the session I know where I stand. Which, if I have done my job, I will have at least 3 prints about a 1/2 a stop apart on density. Because no matter how fancy the timer, until it's toned, and I can witness the dry down effect, I can't make a final exposure decision for the final finished prints.
I have never had a problem with staining or contamination from these dryers. I have prints I dried 35 years ago that look fresh and like new.

I NEVER ferrotype prints on these machines. Always emulsion towards the belt. Ferrotyping as far as I know required Pakosol or a similar glycol solution to get the prints to release properly.

If I want high gloss prints, I use Ilford RC paper and a Ilford 1050 dryer, absolutely stunning gloss. The gelatin actually melts slightly and flows, smooth as glass.

Anyway I'm happy as can be that my 1960's era dryers will be back to tip top shape. Helps me to stay sane.
Best, Mike

 

[AgX]

If I want high gloss prints, I use Ilford RC paper and a Ilford 1050 dryer, absolutely stunning gloss. The gelatin actually melts slightly and flows, smooth as glass.

Good to know. As that dryer works with radiation, not convection I would have expected an uneven heating depening on the image density, resulting in a buckling print as at parts the PE foil might overheat.

 

[mshchem]

Miracles never cease. I called Pakor, They are making me NEW belts. I had to order 3 belts (min. order) price was very reasonable $115 ea, last price I could find was from 15 years ago of $85. I have two of these dryers so I will use the belts. The older dryer belt has a date code from 1966, the newer was 1970. I was amazed, very nice and helpful folks. I talked to Debbie Prigge dprigge@pakor.com A very helpful lady, I asked she got a quote and got back to me in just a few days.

The history of Pako is quite amazing started in 1910 by Glen M. Dye described online as an "itinerant postcard photographer"

I'm really looking forward to getting my machines in tune. I'm about to retire, and I'm going to have a ball printing photos. Old school fun.
Best Regards, Mike

UPDATE

I got my new belts from Pakor. Absolute perfect replacement for the old worn belt. Nice and clean. These machines are amazing, I had to tighten a shaft coupler. The motor and electricals are NASA quality, everything industrial, US made (1970). Runs perfect now.