Wash water at higher temp than chemicals

[tkamiya]

I live in Central Florida where day time temperature can reach 95F (35C). Currently, we have 88F (31C). Water temperature from tap is right now at 80F (27C).

I typically process my films and papers by setting all the chemicals at 68F (20C).

Are there any issues with this setup where water used to do the final wash is quite a bit warmer? One of an old literature I have mentions the gelatin layer becomes unstable at around 80F that emulsion may become quite fragile.

I use Kodak TMAX400 and and XTOL developer.

Any experience and suggestion is welcome!

 

[Sirius Glass]

If the temperature difference is to great, the film surface can get cracks. I think PE can shed some light on this.

Steve

 

[pentaxuser]

I don't think that a 12F difference is anywhere near big enough to cause reticulation in modern films when it's from 68 to 80. Some people regularly develop at say 75F and then wash at what may be 63F with no problems. Films from Fuji Ilford and Kodak are certainly likely to be tough enough to withstand a 12F difference.

I once poured water at way over a 100F into a dev tank with HP5+ and left for maybe 30 secs before realising my mistake and there was no damage.

pentaxuser

 

[nickandre]

I believe modern films like TMAX are hardened fairly well. I don't think it will be a problem. You may want to ease the temperature up by starting with 68 degree water in the film tank and running the tap till it stabilizes near 80.

 

[Ian Grant]

Modern films are hardened but changes in temperature cause grain clumping, also known as micro-reticulation. This just looks like Grain

Ian

 

[juan]

I had problems (my was is 80f), although it was with Efke film - even with pyro developer and hardening fixer. I adjusted all my times so that I could use room temperature solutions and my reticulation and grain clumping disappeared.
juan

 

[tkamiya]

What I am gathering is... not really a big deal or a problem... using modern film such as Tmax... correct?

ooops... spoke too fast. EXCEPT for possibility for increased grainess...

 

[Mahler_one]

I asked the same question some weeks back. I am learning to develop by inspection ( DBI ), and living in Northern Florida one has the same issues with water temperatures. After developing many sheets at 75 degrees F, and washing in Alistair's 8x10 film washer at a water temperature of 81-84 degrees F, I have seen absolutely NO problems with the emulsion using Efke 100, Delta 100, and FP4. I use Pyrocat HD, citric acid stop well diluted, and either Ilford Rapid Fix or TF4 ( I realize one is more acidic than the other, and have noted the recent thread on TF4 and the new TF5 with much interest ). Of course, the difference in temperature from 68 to the low 80's is obviously greater than the difference I was experiencing. PM me if you need any other information.

Ed

 

[tkamiya]

Looking very closely at my prints, I do see some grain in light colored area. I am not certain if this is the real grain or an artifact caused by using too-warm wash water. I *think*, testing on my own is in order. I'll process my film with every fluid at 20C and use a tank of water for washing, again at 20C and see if there are any differences in the result.

This is my first try after 30 years. I was happy just to get some visible image but now it is time to fine tune.
( either that or go DIGITAL... (just kidding) )

Thanks everybody!!

 

[mwdake]

I too live in Florida and typicall tap water temps right now are 25-26C.
I just develop both film and prints at tap water and room temp adjusting times as needed.

 

[bsdunek]

I too live in Florida and typicall tap water temps right now are 25-26C.
I just develop both film and prints at tap water and room temp adjusting times as needed.

I would think that's the best idea. Just adjust developing times for the temp.
An alternate would be to cool jugs of water in the fridge, and then mix to have water at 68F. Then use the multiple wash technique rather than running water.

 

[marcmarc]

I live in LA and have the same problem especially during the summer months. I use a dump and refill method for washing my film. After the fix I rinse out the tank and drop the reel back in, fill the tank with water and let it sit for five minutes. Then I dump the tank, refill, and it sits for another five minutes and so on until an hour has passed. Then it's photo flo time and then dry time. To get my tap water to 68 degrees (give or take a couple degrees) I fill up stainless steel cocktail shakers with water and place in the freezer. By the time five minutes are up, the water has cooled down to about where it should be. On really hot days, sometimes it takes up to ten minutes, so I place another shaker in the freezer and rotate them. The beauty of using these cocktail shakers is that because they are thin stainless steel, they are much quicker at transferring temp. changes then containers of other materials.