WARNING: EXTREME STAND DEVELOPMENT!

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John Wiegerink

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Andy,
You would be looking for trouble here just talking about stand development, but you're going to “extremes” Andy. This is surely going to stir up some interest, one way or the other. For some films, I like stand or semi-stand. One in particular is Fuji Acros in Rodinal 1:100 for 60 min..
 
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Andrew O'Neill

Andrew O'Neill

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Andy,
You would be looking for trouble here just talking about stand development, but you're going to “extremes” Andy. This is surely going to stir up some interest, one way or the other. For some films, I like stand or semi-stand. One in particular is Fuji Acros in Rodinal 1:100 for 60 min..

I know, right??!! There are some here who absolutely loathe stand development. Knickers in a twist or what?? If used carefully, smart, and at the right moments/situations, it can deliver amazing results. Personally, I will never use such an extreme approach, as regular semi-stand can deliver similar if not same, result. For a future test, I want to see at what point the film exhausts itself.
 

chuckroast

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I know, right??!! There are some here who absolutely loathe stand development. Knickers in a twist or what?? If used carefully, smart, and at the right moments/situations, it can deliver amazing results. Personally, I will never use such an extreme approach, as regular semi-stand can deliver similar if not same, result. For a future test, I want to see at what point the film exhausts itself.

I did this about a year ago (overnight stand), though I did not put it in the fridge. I suspect cooling the developer like this actually reduces its activity. In any case, I got much the same results you did and saw nothing compelling beyond what I already get with semistand and EMA.

The story goes that old photo shops did this with D-23 back in the day. All the film got hung and dunked a few times and left hanging in open tanks. Then they were dunked again at the end of the day to stand overnight. This method allowed for best possible shadow speed and highlight control across the many different emulsions and variations in exposure found in volume film development like this.

I've been using semistand and EMA for around 3-ish years now after over 40 years of conventional development. It is my consistent experience that the people who mostly loudly object to it have either never taken the time to really master it, or haven't tried it at all. It's an arrow in quiver of technique, and very useful when it's appropriate.

My notes here if anyone wants to try it themselves:

 
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chuckroast

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Andy,
You would be looking for trouble here just talking about stand development, but you're going to “extremes” Andy. This is surely going to stir up some interest, one way or the other. For some films, I like stand or semi-stand. One in particular is Fuji Acros in Rodinal 1:100 for 60 min..

Semistand or EMA with highly dilute Pyrocat-HD (1.5:1:200, 250, or even 300) works really well with Acros, Acros II, Fomapan 200, FP4+, HP5+, Double X, and Tri-X. It works, fine with Agfapan as well, but APX 100 doesn't stain that well. I've also works well with Plus-X (I have a bunch stashed in all formats).

I have also used this technique for really old films. The only one that gave me fits was 2x3 Plus-X sheet film that streaked like crazy no matter how I suspended it in Pyrocat-HD. The solution was to switch to D-23. See:

 
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Andrew O'Neill

Andrew O'Neill

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I did this about a year ago (overnight stand), though I did not put it in the fridge. I suspect cooling the developer like this actually reduces its activity. In any case, I got much the same results you did and saw nothing compelling beyond what I already get with semistand and EMA.

The story goes that old photo shops did this with D-23 back in the day. All the film got hung and dunked a few times and left hanging in open tanks. Then they were dunked again at the end of the day to stand overnight. This method allowed for best possible shadow speed and highlight control across the many different emulsions and variations in exposure found in volume film development like this.

I've been using semistand and EMA for around 3-ish years now after over 40 years of conventional development. It is my consistent experience that the people who mostly loudly object to it have either never taken the time to really master it, or haven't tried it at all. It's an arrow in quiver of technique, and very useful when it's appropriate.

My notes here if anyone wants to try it themselves:


Thank you for sharing your notes, chuckroast!
 
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Andrew O'Neill

Andrew O'Neill

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What is your usual Pcat dilution when doing (semi)stand or EMA?

5ml of both stock A and B into 1200ml water for both stand/semi-stand. I use 1200ml because that is what it takes to fill one 8x10 BTZS tube right to the brim.
I have a video on my channel where I'm farting around with stand/semi-stand/EMA, and 4x5 HP5.
 

pentaxuser

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Thanks for the video, Andy. If anything I thought that on some shots the extreme stand looked better but it was by the thinnest of margins

What was interesting was that 1. There seemed to be no bromide drag despite only one minute initial agitation.
2. The very low temp did not seem to inhibit development

Despite those points 1 and 2, I imagine that problems with results from attempting extreme stand development at low temperatures will still figure largely in any set of comments next time anyone mentions wanting to try stand development with extreme dilution despite there being a substantial amount of evidence building up that problems with bromide drag or extreme agitation or dilution will not inevitably result

Finally let me say in the spirit of Ebenezer Scrooge that extreme dilution and lack of fuel for 20 C in this forthcoming festive period may have much to be recommended😃

God Bless us everyone


T.T. Cratchit
 

chuckroast

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5ml of both stock A and B into 1200ml water for both stand/semi-stand. I use 1200ml because that is what it takes to fill one 8x10 BTZS tube right to the brim.
I have a video on my channel where I'm farting around with stand/semi-stand/EMA, and 4x5 HP5.

I have long used 1.5:1:200 as my mixing ratio. Of late, I've drifted more toward 1.5:1:250 or even 300. The higher dilutions give increased sharpness, but do require a bit more agitation to keep the highlights going, so I mostly use this with a 3-4 agitation EMA cycle (including initial 90sec).
 

John Wiegerink

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Did you have to take any precautions against thermal shock to the film for the stop/fix? A refrigerator is usually around 4 deg. C.

I was wondering the same thing, but didn't notice any signs of reticulation on his shots. Of course, there might have been some if one looked with a high power magnifier.
 
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Andrew O'Neill

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Did you have to take any precautions against thermal shock to the film for the stop/fix? A refrigerator is usually around 4 deg. C.

None whatsoever. I wasn't so worried about any reticulation, as I've tried to do that to film in the past and found it quite difficult to do with modern films. Going from about 20C to the fridge temperature was slow and gradual. My stop and fix was about 20C.
 

John Wiegerink

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None whatsoever. I wasn't so worried about any reticulation, as I've tried to do that to film in the past and found it quite difficult to do with modern films. Going from about 20C to the fridge temperature was slow and gradual. My stop and fix was about 20C.

That's good to know. I too, have never had any reticulation problems whatsoever with modern or older films.
 

mshchem

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Amazing and crazy. I love it! I was contemplating this last night, only I was thinking, extremely dilute developer, XTOL 1+20, in a refrigerator, with a Jobo Silverbase. 😊 😆 😎

Andy, I love your videos and Bold sense of adventure!

Best Regards Mike
 
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Andrew O'Neill

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Amazing and crazy. I love it! I was contemplating this last night, only I was thinking, extremely dilute developer, XTOL 1+20, in a refrigerator, with a Jobo Silverbase. 😊 😆 😎

Andy, I love your videos and Bold sense of adventure!

Best Regards Mike

Thank you, Mike! I really do appreciate it!
 

What About Bob

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I was watching this about 30 minutes ago and then noticed it here. Results are awesome. I played around with stand development four years ago but not to that extreme. Great video!

Yeah I was thinking about temperature shock also. Good to know that it isn't worrisome. I remember when I developed my first roll, 1992, the class was told not to stray too much in temperature or you would reticulate/crack the film. To this day I still have that mantra of deviating temperatures imprinted into me to where if I see the thermometer going to 72F I get kind of antsy, lol. Still need to keep telling myself that the other chemicals aren't as critical and that the materials can take a little bit of a poke in temperature.

The wheels are now turning in my head a little. Rodinal stand development in the fridge, hmmmmmm. What about the freezer? Rodinal ice cubes.
 

Disconnekt

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I was watching this about 30 minutes ago and then noticed it here. Results are awesome. I played around with stand development four years ago but not to that extreme. Great video!

Yeah I was thinking about temperature shock also. Good to know that it isn't worrisome. I remember when I developed my first roll, 1992, the class was told not to stray too much in temperature or you would reticulate/crack the film. To this day I still have that mantra of deviating temperatures imprinted into me to where if I see the thermometer going to 72F I get kind of antsy, lol. Still need to keep telling myself that the other chemicals aren't as critical and that the materials can take a little bit of a poke in temperature.

The wheels are now turning in my head a little. Rodinal stand development in the fridge, hmmmmmm. What about the freezer? Rodinal ice cubes.

There's a photography channel on youtube named Attic Darkroom that did a video on doing that 😂

 
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Andrew O'Neill

Andrew O'Neill

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In the freezer? Hmmmm.... One would think that the freezer would almost act like a big stop bath 😆 Development starts, it's popped into the freezer. Development gradually slows as the temperature drops. Contents freeze. Development stops. Out of the freezer, contents thaw and development gradually continues/increases. I'm going to have to play around with this 😬
 

chuckroast

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This site (or its subdomain) appears to have been deleted...

No, it's there. You're probably being geoblocked by the server. If you have VPN access, try that instead.

Look further down this thread. You'll find a PDF of the paper attached here.
 
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