Warming up Azo

[climbabout]

I saw some references from my searches here about Gevaert G-262 as being a good developer to warm up azo. I normally use Dr. Beers on my other papers, but the color with azo was awful - it prints bluish green. I tried the G-262 with azo last night both straight and 1:1 with water. The color was much improved - not what I would call really warm, but definitely more neutral in tone - I also selenium toned at 1:15 as I normally do for 2-3min. Has anyone else here been able to get warm brown tones out of azo through development rather than toning?
Tim

 

[Jim Fitzgerald]

Tim, how old is your Azo? I have gotten beautiful chocolate tones on my Azo. I have been using Ansco 130 with extra Bromide and Benzo in it! You would think the benzo would counteract the bromide but I think it helps with the papers age. My 8 1/2x 11 Azo is from 1976. I toned some recently in 1:20 Selenium that was mixed fresh for 5 minutes. Like I say the tone was a beautiful chocolate with crisp highlights and deep chocolate/black shadows. I also tried experimenting with a sheet of the 3/06 expiration 8x10 developed the same way but double toned. First in a weak solution of Selenium and dried and then in a stronger solution 1:20 for 5 minutes and managed to get the tone to shift toward the brown somewhat. You may want to try Neutol WA for your developer. I have gotten warmer tones using this developer also. Check out the Azo forum for more info.I'll try to post the image so you can see what I mean.

Jim

 

[climbabout]

The Azo I have is grade 2 Canadian 2005 or so vintage, so relatively new.
Tim

 

[Michael Kadillak]

The Azo I have is grade 2 Canadian 2005 or so vintage, so relatively new.
Tim

The best developer for Azo is Michael Smiths amidol formula for two reasons. First, you can control the tone with how much 10% KBR you add to the formula and get a marvelous warm hue out of it. Secondly, the amidol formula allows you to use a water bath to get a half grade more out of the paper which is fabulous. At the end of the day it is about being in control of the process.

Cheers!

 

[Jim Fitzgerald]

I agree with Michael. I guess I wasn't awake this am because I forgot to add this in my original post. I have had good results with Ansco 130 and the waterbath to control the grades. Amidol is the benchmark for Azo, though.

Jim

 

[brofkand]

Hmm...I can tell I still have tons to learn. When I read this title thread, I thought this would be about UTI medication.

 

[sanking]

Michael is right about constrast control with Amidol.

However, if you don't need the contrast control Ansco 130 gives a very long scale print with a curve very similar to that of Amidol.


Sandy King

The best developer for Azo is Michael Smiths amidol formula for two reasons. First, you can control the tone with how much 10% KBR you add to the formula and get a marvelous warm hue out of it. Secondly, the amidol formula allows you to use a water bath to get a half grade more out of the paper which is fabulous. At the end of the day it is about being in control of the process.

Cheers!

 

[c6h6o3]

The best developer for Azo is Michael Smiths amidol formula for two reasons. First, you can control the tone with how much 10% KBR you add to the formula and get a marvelous warm hue out of it. Secondly, the amidol formula allows you to use a water bath to get a half grade more out of the paper which is fabulous. At the end of the day it is about being in control of the process.

Cheers!

Water bath development reduces contrast. The only way to get any more out of a paper is extended development, but that can introduce other problems. KBr can warm things up a bit, especially with grade 3 which is warmer anyway, but too much KBr will reduce contrast to the point where a previously glowing print becomes dull.

I have a very difficult time getting enough warmth out of the Canadian Grade 2 and even with grade 3 there doesn't seem to be much rhyme or reason to the tone. When I get a particularly beautiful tone I can almost never reproduce it the next time I print that negative. The older, domestically produced grade 2 also has beautiful tone sometimes, especially if you like a little green (which I do). I think that of all the Azos I've printed on I like the Rochester grade 2 the best.

And of course I cannot submit this rant without stating somewhere in it what will surely be my dying words: "There is no substitute for amidol".

 

[JLP]

My limited experience with Ansco 130 and AZO is that the original 130 formula makes very cold and unpleasant (To my eye) tones, almost as bad as Dektol. The curve may be like Amidol but the tone is not.
In this context i need to ad that it is MAS formula that i have experience with..


jan

 

[sanking]

Do you tone your prints with selenium as MAS recommends?

I don't see any difference at all in the color of prints made with Ansco 130 and Amidol when they are toned in a dilute selenium solution. There may be some subtle difference, but I don't see it.

Sandy King

My limited experience with Ansco 130 and AZO is that the original 130 formula makes very cold and unpleasant (To my eye) tones, almost as bad as Dektol. The curve may be like Amidol but the tone is not.
In this context i need to ad that it is MAS formula that i have experience with..


jan

 

[JLP]

Sandy, i have done some experiments with various dillutions of selenium but so far not manged to control the tone of AZO to my liking. i do prefer a rather warm tone but my AZO prints seems to go all brown and loss of contrast is rapid in any of the dillutions i have tried.

jan

 

[sanking]

Curious, when I develop AZO in Ansco 130 the prints have a kind of warm color, slightly greenish. When these prints are toned in Kodak Rapid Selenium 1:125 they take on a very neutral black color after a couple of minutes. If I leave them longer in the toner the color trends toward a slight purple egg shell.

The AZO I am using is #2 and it is the Canadian material.

Sandy

Sandy, i have done some experiments with various dillutions of selenium but so far not manged to control the tone of AZO to my liking. i do prefer a rather warm tone but my AZO prints seems to go all brown and loss of contrast is rapid in any of the dillutions i have tried.

jan

 

[climbabout]

Thanks for the replies - I'm going to give the amidol a go, the g-262 gives me close to the warmth I'm looking for - we'll see if the amidol does better.

BTW, Sandy, just got my wife a Mamiya 7, 65mm and 150mm - great camera - did I read somewhere that you shoot one as well?

Tim

 

[JLP]

The AZO I am using is #2 and it is the Canadian material.

Same AZO that i use. Have never used such a diluted Selenium toner though so i will give that a try and also try with more Kbr.
Thanks.

jan

 

[sanking]

Tim,

Yes, I have a Mamiya 711 with 50mm, 65mm, 80mm and 150mm lenses. It has become the outfit I take with me when traveling abroad.

Sandy

Thanks for the replies - I'm going to give the amidol a go, the g-262 gives me close to the warmth I'm looking for - we'll see if the amidol does better.

BTW, Sandy, just got my wife a Mamiya 7, 65mm and 150mm - great camera - did I read somewhere that you shoot one as well?

Tim

 

[c6h6o3]

Curious, when I develop AZO in Ansco 130 the prints have a kind of warm color, slightly greenish. When these prints are toned in Kodak Rapid Selenium 1:125 they take on a very neutral black color after a couple of minutes. If I leave them longer in the toner the color trends toward a slight purple egg shell.

The AZO I am using is #2 and it is the Canadian material.

Sandy

Sandy-

Try a 1:64 dilution of the toner. I have actually managed to get a quite lovely warm brown-black out of Canadian grade 2 this way. Not often, mind you, but when it happens it's beautiful. Tone for exactly 4 minutes.

Jim

 

[jgjbowen]

Same AZO that i use. Have never used such a diluted Selenium toner though so i will give that a try and also try with more Kbr.
Thanks.

jan

With regards to the Kbr, I believe Michael Smith uses more Kbr with the Canadian Azo the his Amidol formula calls for. Something like 3 or 4 ml vs the 2ml the formula lists. You have to dig through the forum to find this.

Jim S gave me this tip a little while ago.

 

[Peter Schrager]

John-I'm actually using about 7 to 8ml of kbr when make up the developer
Best, Peter

 

[jgjbowen]

Peter,

Bring a few of your high kbr azo prints in October....I'd like to compare and contrast with mine. Thanks!