Warm-tone or cool-tone paper?

[fschifano]

Interesting that you didn't include a "no preference" choice, because I believe a lot of folks just might vote that way if given the choice. For me the choice of a warm, neutral, or cool tone paper really depends on the image I'm printing. Some work better with warm tones, others with cool tones, and most seem to work best with just plain old middle of the road neutral toned papers.

 

[Silverhead]

Warm, cool or neutral?

neutral to slightly warm

Agreed. For me, cooltone is something that should be applied to very specialized images, whereas neutral & slightly warm tend to lend themselves to a much wider variety of pictures. Agfa Classic was a great exmaple of this. Nowadays for me it's Kentona.

 

[Mike Wilde]

Depends on the mood I want to impart to the image

I contact print and proof print on a neutral/cool tone that I interpret that Ilford MGIV RC pearl in MG developer. or Dektol developer yields.

If it is a scene that I think will look better in warm/sepia/brown I will thaw the warmtone FB, and print on it, in Dektol, or Ansco 130. I might then go on to tone it strong selenium to head to plum it up, or sepia, or even copper to get warm with reds.

If it is a portrait, I might go for the Agfa FB with a bit creamier base, and warm tone, and then develop it in a warm toned formula, and then might go on to tone it.

If it is cool that I want, I might dig out the Ilford FB cooltone to go cooler, and even drive it cooler yet with a little tone of iron blue.

There is no one image approach that would say that I 'prefer' one or the other

 

[don sigl]

Interesting to see that the warmtone group out numbers the other two by 2:1, yet the warm tone selections in the market today are pretty slim. With the demise of Forte PWT, the selection gets much slimmer. I have been looking for a replacement and have had no luck to date. I printed on PWT for 12 years, and absolutely loved it. Its strong points;
Beautiful long tonal gradation
Excellent dmax
Clean white base
Unbelievable toneability
Produces a super rich brown black in Nelson's gold toner
Reasonable price

Drawbacks:
A little slower than I would like
Terrible packaging

I"ve been shopping around for a replacement. What I really want is a paper that:
Produces a rich warm tone
Has a clean white base
Tones easily
Dense Deep dmax
Produces a brown black in Nelsons
Packaged in multiple sizes/quantities
Glossy surface
Won't break the bank

Not too much ask for (so I hoped)

This is what I know so far:
Ilford warm tone: A lot of people like this paper. I do not. It doesn't have the clean white, and it doesn't tone well in nelsons. Its also overpriced. Its easy to use, as are all the Ilford papers, but it lacks the pop of PWT (my opinion)

Kentmere All the papers are tried have inferior or no toning capabilities. Again they lack the crispness of PWT. This is not to say they are not good papers, just not able to produce the look of PWT.

Oriental: An old favorite back in the Seagull days. I'm tempted to try the warm tone, but it doesn't come in a glossy surface. Whats up with that? Also can't get 11x14 in 10 sheet quantities. 25 sheets is a lot for testing.

Bergger: OK, I haven't tested it. I can't get by the price and the limited packaging quantity choices. In my opinion Bergger products are obscenely overpriced. It makes me angry when I see what they are asking retail. Its nuts. However, I will acknowledge that Bergger will generally negotiate pricing discounts on large quantity purchases. No other retail/manufacturer combination I have spoken with over the last few years would consider quantity discounts. In that area, Bergger wins. But i still can't afford the paper.

Foma: I'm waiting for the order. I'm testing the warm tone and the 111. The warm tone has one strike against it with the creme base. I'm hoping the 111 will tone in nelsons. I also like the fact that the 111 designation was used by Agfa for Brovira glossy surface. Brovira was a former love of mine during my youth.

Varykon Photokemmika: Ok, the price is great. The paper is not bad either. But compared to PWT; it doesn't have the gradation in the highlights, and the dmax is lower. It tones in nelson in about 20 minutes to a a kind of reddish plum color. Not the nice brown/black but not offensive either. Looks more selenium toned. I really like the price, but it will not be a replacement for PWT.

Arista: I've tried some of the films and a few 50 sheet boxes of the made in Hungary warmtone. Freestyle claims it is PWT. Its not. In general, its more contrasty with a raw tonality, especially in the highlights. It doesn't tone the same as PWT either. More yellow than brown in Nelson's. The contrast may be controllable with split printing and split development, but after about 100 sheets, I threw in the towel. I guess its no longer available anyway.
I tried some of the 400 speed film a while ago, and compared it to my usual HP5. There was no comparison. Its a student film, the price point is great, and the quality is mediocre. I have abandoned Arista products for high quality work. Maybe others have had better luck, but for me the products don't meet my requirements out of the box, and I, in all my laziness, don't want to spend any more time trying to massage them up to my expectations.

Well, I guess I've kind of rambled on a bit. My original point was pretty straight forward though. It seems that warm toned papers are preferred , but their seems to be a disproportionate selection in the market.

 

[Maine-iac]

I generally prefer neutral tone papers (eg, Ilford MG-FB), but for some subjects, a warm tone is wonderful. Don't especially care for cold-tone papers.

I like the slightly warm-tone emulsion with a neutral white paper base, a la the late lamented Agfa MCC 111. For some subjects I like the Ilford or Forte (also late-lamented) warmtone, but I'd prefer a less ivory-colored paper base.

For some subjects, I prefer a cool-tone paper like Kentmere or Ilford MGFB, though I don't get the deep shadow detail with a purely bromide (cool) emulsion.

I'm in mourning for the loss of Agfa, consoled only by my stockpiled year's supply.

Larry

 

[Maine-iac]

Bergger: OK, I haven't tested it. I can't get by the price and the limited packaging quantity choices. In my opinion Bergger products are obscenely overpriced. It makes me angry when I see what they are asking retail. Its nuts. However, I will acknowledge that Bergger will generally negotiate pricing discounts on large quantity purchases. No other retail/manufacturer combination I have spoken with over the last few years would consider quantity discounts. In that area, Bergger wins. But i still can't afford the paper.

Agreed on Bergger, because it really was just Forte packaged under a different label. I'd run many tests and found them identical visually and in every other way.

I'm mourning the loss of Agfa MCC 111 which I loved better than any other paper I ever used, and I've used most of them.

Larry
P.S. the new Oriental is not the same as the old stuff. Decent, but not up to the old standard Seagull.

 

[Richard Jepsen]

I vote for neutral/warm paper. The majority of my paper selection was Agfa Classic Fiber and now Forte Polywarmtone Plus. A paper like Polywartone Plus (toned to intensify and cool the image) has interesting tonality and works in small handheld prints. Wall hung prints project better with a neutral to cool color. I agree with another poster that Ilford's WT fiber is similar to Polywarmtone Plus, lacking that extra contrast spark, base white color and Forte's toning characteristics. Varycon has favorable pricing and tones placed in a zone 5 to 6 print lighter than Polywarmtone Plus. However, Varycon fiber lacks the dmax of Polywarmtone Plus but is worth trying.

 

[Silverhead]

Interesting; there's cold, cool and warm tone but no hot tone...Or is there?

Actually, Fomatone Classic Chamois could almost be considered hot tone--it's so warm it looks something like yellow parchment. Hopefully Foma will come out with a neutral-tone version...a paper that warm would have very limited practical applications, I think. Of course, one could always use cold-tone paper developer to compensate...