Warm-tone Developer for Sepia-Red Tones (Ilford) - formula & dilution question

[Jeff Bannow]

So, I was thinking about trying out this formula, but am a bit confused about how to dilute it. Anyone have any experience with this?

For instance, the following; "Sepia: 3 x normal exposure, dilute with 10 parts water, add 1ml 10% bromide solution, 5 minutes development." Dilute how much with 10 parts water? It's all mixed between ratios and ml. Huh?

Here's the formula from the book, mildly adjusted by me for better understanding:

Warm-tone Developer for Sepia-Red Tones (Ilford)
The Photographer’s Toning Book, Page 179, by Tim Rudman

Paper developer for warm-tone prints. This is not a toner.

Note: This is used to produce fine grain size and hence warm tones. This is often used with reduced development to minimize grain size, and overexposure to restore density. If development is restrained too far in the pursuit of warm tones, subsequent toning is likely to be weak.

Stock Solution:
750ml Water
3.4g Hydrochlorquinone
3.4g Hydroquinone
31.25g Sodium sulfite, anhydrous
23g Sodium carbonate, anhydrous
0.35g Potassium bromide
Water to make 1L

Note: “I have not used this formula, but my own experiments with other warm-tone developers of this type suggest that the extreme warm-tone prints from maximum dilutions in such developers do not tone well.”

Use: This developer may be used stock, or like many warm-tone developers, used at increasing dilutions & longer development times, for warmer-tone results. Addition of extra potassium bromide will give redder tones. The following guides are given, using a 10% (1+9) potassium bromide solution:

Warm Black: Normal exposure, undiluted, 1.5 minutes development.
Sepia: 3 x normal exposure, dilute with 10 parts water, add 1ml 10% bromide solution, 5 minutes development.
Brown sepia: 5 x normal exposure, dilute with 15 parts water, add 3ml 10% bromide solution, 10 minutes development.
Red-brown: 6 x normal exposure, dilute with 25 parts water, add 5ml 10% bromide solution, 15 minutes development.
Bright red: 7 x normal exposure, dilute with 30 parts water, add 5ml 10% bromide solution, 15 minutes development.

 

[Ian Grant]

These formulae don't work well with modern papers. They worked well with the older warm tone papers that contained Cadmium, but Kodak Ektalure was the last of that type, Agfa Record Rapid had the Cadmium removed in the late 1980's.

I've tried them all, the Kodak, Ilford, Gevaert, Agfa etc extreme warm tone developers but Chloroquinone's not available any longer so that formual isn't practical.

Ian

 

[Jeff Bannow]

Thanks Ian! I guess that answers that then.

Time to search for a new warm-tone formula.

 

[Ian Grant]

Ilfords newer PQ Warm tone developer ID-78 is excellent, good keeping properties, great warmth, I develop for 45 secomds to get maximum warmth at around 25°C. Ilford Warmtnoe developer is quite similar.

Ian

 

[Nicholas Lindan]

I have used G 262 with the same promise of 'dilute 1:10 for red tones'. Results were pretty crummy. I think the 'red tones @ 1:10' is hearsay rather than experience.

Gavaert 262 is:
70 g sodium sulfite
25 g hydroquinone
90 g sodium carbonate
2 g pottassium bromide

The Tim Rudman formula (TR: "I haven't used it ..."!) looks to be a diluted variation.

 

[Ian Grant]

I got good strong reds with the old Record Rapid and also Portriga in one of the Agfa extreme warm tone developers (120 or 123 back in the mid 1980's. However Flemish toner is easier (Selenium Sulphide) with modern papers.

Some of the extreme warm tone developers have very high levels of Bromide and that inhibits development with modern papers, but the papers with Cadmium etc seemed to work in these developers.

Ian

Ian

 

[Jeff Bannow]

Thanks guys. Looks like I have some workable options.

Too bad about the cadmium. Good for the environment, bad for photographers.

 

[Marcus K]

Yeah, in my experience the old warmtone agfa and ansco formulas don't produce great results on modern paper. At best you'll get yellow greenish blacks and poor highlight with those high dilutions. I have used Gevaert G262 and got nice want warm tones. I dilute it 1:4 and develop for about 2-3 min on Fomatone paper. Here's an example of that combination. I also like the Ansco 115 (Edwal 106) warmtone formula. Diluted 1:8 with a developing time of 60 sec produced brownish blacks on Fomatone (usually this paper has a tendency to have greenish warm tones which I don't care for). I've yet to find a paper & developer combination that will actually produce reds or deep brown. A toner will be the best way to achieve those tones.

The exotic developing agent of Chlorohydroquinone (aka Hydrochlorquinone, Chlorquinol) is no longer produced but I do have about 80g of it. I have tried the Edwall 111 formula which contains the developing agents of chlorohydroquinone and Glycin. It produced nice warmtones on modern papers but no sepia or red colors.

 

[hpulley]

So nothing will produce a nice red or brown these days? I'm looking for something like this. These are some Delta 400 (pushed to 1600) scans, scanned as color negs which turns the blue/purple base to reddish when inverted. Any way to produce something like this with warm tone paper, developers, red toners?


Misty morning monochrome by Harry Pulley, on Flickr

 

[pentaxuser]

Just had a quick browse of Tim Rudman's Toning book. Page 41 shows a print which looks like the one you show. It was Gold after Poysulphide which suggests very archivally stable prints but some prints of copper toning come close.

pentaxuser

 

[hpulley]

Thanks! Sounds like a book I need to get.

 

[CBG]

I believe gold toning after any sulfide tone process will make for a very red tone on many papers. Polysulphide, hypo alum, etc.

 

[Philippe Grunchec]

Just had a quick browse of Tim Rudman's Toning book. Page 41 shows a print which looks like the one you show. It was Gold after Poysulphide which suggests very archivally stable prints but some prints of copper toning come close.

pentaxuser

... but I think copper toners are not archival!

 

[hpulley]

Only sepia or selenium are archival?

 

[Philippe Grunchec]

And gggggold, of course, and platinum, and palladium (not easy to find as toners)!

 

[hpulley]

I thought there were real gold toners which add gold, not gold tone but gold atoms.

 

[Ian Grant]

I thought there were real gold toners which add gold, not gold tone but gold atoms.

That's the only types of Gold toners

Ian

 

[hpulley]

So, knowing that copper toner won't be archival is it generally regarded as the best way to get red? I guess I'll just have to buy some and try it myself...

 

[Ian Grant]

Red is usually Sulphide toning followed by gold. However the type of Sulphide toner used first makes a vast difference and so does the paper used, how much it's developed, many variables.

Another Red toner is Nickel but again it's not archival, then there's chromogenic toning where you use a rehalogenating bleach and redevelop with a colour developer and the right colour coupler (or blend) added to get the desired colour. Tetenal sold a kit for this.

Ian

 

[hpulley]

Guess I need to order that book from overseas... any actual product recommendations regarding particular paper, sulphide and gold toners? Regular or warm tone Ilford Fibre MG? Kodak or Berg sepia, are they sulphide? Moersch sulphide? Fotospeed sepia and gold toners? Freestyle seems to have a good selection, just not sure if they can ship all this stuff into Canada... some of it is CONUS ground shipping limited :-S