Warm Lith Prints

[Mark Fisher]

Are the following points true (in general and dependent on paper) to shift toward warmer tones?
-higher dilution
-which needs more light
-early snatch (not to deep cold blacks)
-exhausted dev (or just add Br?)

Thanks

From my experience, getting warmer prints depends mostly on the paper chosen, but the developer and the "age" of the developer have a big effect also. I only use 1:1:50 plus 33% old developer unless I really want something less warm...then I don't add the old brown and keep the developer fresh. I've also found that a developer like Arista Liquid is less warm than Moersch or Rollei. More light means lower contrast and early snatch just means that the blacks aren't fully formed. It might effect the warmness (never noticed), but it would sacrifice the contrast and blacks so better to use other techniques to get the tone you want. The only way to really see for yourself, though, is to burn some paper...

 

[schrochem]

I guess I've become a bit obsessive with this..... ;-)
Well i sure burned some paper last night for 6 hours.
In the end it was all just playing because I was messing with developer.
BUT it was certainly a learning experience. I got some very interesting results.
A few were great but just didn't have that 'pop'
I'll explain more in the MGWT thread about the developer issue.

 

[Bob Carnie]

Post toning has a incredible effect on colour as Mr G pointed out here or on the other thread. Night and day results.. If you want warm, pick up some Kentona somehow.. now that is a paper that develops out warm.

 

[schrochem]

I look forward to toning..... I've tried but the results have been weird. After bleaching the tone won't come all the way back. The brightest highlights remain bleached. Selenium works though.
Hopefully weirdness with the development has something to do with it. I have some mt3 and some homebrew thio waiting in the wind.

 

[schrochem]

One of the main problems I was having last night was the mids were getting too dark. If I didn't keep going there was a foggy look to the print. Weird ass developer aside, I read that pre-flashing might have helped with this. Since I'm contact printing it wouldn't be that hard to do. How long though....? If my exposure is 10secs, how bout 10secs flash (same light source)?
If I have this in my head right, the flash will give the highlights and mids a bit of a head start? Which in effect will pull them further away from the blacks?
Thanks for all the help with this. I love experimentation but also like to understand why I'm doing it ;-)

 

[Bob Carnie]

Flashing for lith prints will lower the contrast, less exposure will increase contrast.

One of the main problems I was having last night was the mids were getting too dark. If I didn't keep going there was a foggy look to the print. Weird ass developer aside, I read that pre-flashing might have helped with this. Since I'm contact printing it wouldn't be that hard to do. How long though....? If my exposure is 10secs, how bout 10secs flash (same light source)?
If I have this in my head right, the flash will give the highlights and mids a bit of a head start? Which in effect will pull them further away from the blacks?
Thanks for all the help with this. I love experimentation but also like to understand why I'm doing it ;-)

 

[schrochem]

Makes sense based on my little bit of trial last night. It was the funky developer so I didn't delve too far....
If I generally like the exposure at 30s (and increasing causes other problems) but want less contrast is it a 'total' calculation?
Say 5s of flash and 25s of exposure. Or would I do 5s flash and keep the 30s exposure?
Of course I'll play with it but I need to get in the ball park and understand it a bit more.

 

[Bob Carnie]

I use flashing for negs I have produced that may be a bit different than what you are up too.

for example... When making negatives for lith prints BUT NOT FOR ILFORD WARMTONE... I want a very contrasty negative... I use a push situation.. tri x rated at 800 or 1200, then I push process/extend the time in HC110 to get a very hot neg.
Remember the old adage of being able to read a newspaper through a negative, and you would have a good neg.
Well you would not be able to read a newspaper through the highlights of my lith negs...

I use a grade 4 paper, some that come to mind are oriental or slavich...
The use of the flash is to put tone in the highlight regions , rather than a tool to control contrast, but since you put tone in an area that if you did not flash would be white then the effect is a visual lower contrast... for this type of lith print you are pulling the print when the blacks emerge to your tastes.

there fore if you follow this line of reasoning,,, more exposure - flatter the scene less exposure -more contrast....

Therefore the enlarger manipulations control the highlight regions and midtones.... the snatch point controls your black.

For ILFORD WARMTONE I use a normal / normal negative as I use this paper for a completely different look .. not like lets say Anton Corjbin Startrax stye which is look that I described above.
But rather when I want something to look old, or with toning very colourful.

If I understand this thread, your original is much different than anything I have experience with and therefore you can take what I say with a grain of salt.

Makes sense based on my little bit of trial last night. It was the funky developer so I didn't delve too far....
If I generally like the exposure at 30s (and increasing causes other problems) but want less contrast is it a 'total' calculation?
Say 5s of flash and 25s of exposure. Or would I do 5s flash and keep the 30s exposure?
Of course I'll play with it but I need to get in the ball park and understand it a bit more.

 

[schrochem]

I appreciate the input Bob. Yea, the thread has morphed a bit but that's ok....it's all relevant to getting me to a general area I'd like to see. From there I can explore other variations of lith looks. I am however finding quite a few along the way with wacky developer ;-)
I just found a nice one by (there was a url link here which no longer exists) (well on a monitor).
It doesn't have to be MGWT, but I've seen some potential. In this print, I like the warmth and grit of the dark parts of the sky.
I just received a new batch of LD20 so I have fresh chemistry to work with. I'll see how it goes but was curious about the flashing because I ran into some things that sounds like it would solve.
Thanks again for the help.

 

[schrochem]

I've been endlessly playing with all sorts of variables I won't bore ya'll with ;-)
Latest iteration was kinda cool. Used the arista at 60:60:500
For a colorful paper like fomatone that gave I nice warm image.
However, fomabrom was left kinda cold.
Is there a colorful warm paper like fomatone that has more grain? The hypothesis is to use a strong developer to tame the color to a warm tone (as opposed to pinks and salmons) and get a bit of grit (not full on fomabrom grit but just a nice hint).
I might be able to accomplish this with fomatone but thought I'd ask.
Moersch has a summary of papers and describes adox fine print classic to have saturated grainy blacks. That's what i'd like to see I think.