Wanting to get into large format, am I crazy?

Squidward · Feb 5, 2008

I've suddenly gotten the itch to take up 4X5 photography, or at least get a camera that is capable of shooting on to 4X5 film. I was given a Kodak Ektar 127mm f4.7 from 1945 that I could use with this camera. Yes, I know that the image circle just covers the film and that I will not be able to use any tilt nor shift without worry about vignetting. I'm hoping to be able to attach my Nikon D70 to it for some new photographic options and the smaller DX sensor will allow me to do some limited tilts and shifts without worry about vignetting and this will allow me to familiarize myself with the view camera without any additional expenditure. I may get a 6X9 or 6X7 back for it to dabble in medium format territory, too.

Here's the crazy part: I'm seriously considering making a 4X5 camera on my own from ideas I have in my head about how/what I want. Am I crazy for wanting to make the camera? Should I just buy a used field camera to learn on and move on to making a camera after I get comfortable with it? Part of the reason for wanting to make the camera is because of budget but also the satisfaction of making it myself with ideas of how I want it to work.

About me:
I've been a serious hobbyist in the field of photography since high school. I've owned and used a few Nikon cameras in my day: owned Nikon FE2, Nikon F Photomic FTN, Nikkormat FTN, Nikon D70, in that order - still have the FE2 and D70. I've used the F4s and F2. I'm mechanically inclined and have a fairly good understanding of how things work and why, for the most part. I've done darkroom work both in high school and in college but currently do not have access to a darkroom. I have an Omega D2 sitting in storage that I would love to use some day.

I am a pretty good do-it-yourselfer. I have a Sherline miniature mill so I have the capability to make metal parts as needed.

Thomas Bertilsson · Feb 6, 2008

Not crazy. Just a little off the rocker. In this day and age I think you need to be a person thinking in 'alternate' terms to consider film photography. That's why this web site is so interesting, there are lots of free thinkers and people with interesting views and ideas.
If you're looking for advice on how to realize your view camera dreams - you're in the right place. That Ektar you have is an amazing lens. Use both its strengths and weaknesses to your benefit. It will pay off.
Do what so much of the population seems to have such a hard time doing - follow your heart and do it. Or you will probably regret you didn't at some point in time.
Good luck,
- Thomas

Squidward · Feb 6, 2008

Oh, forgot to mention this: I've never seen first hand nor handled a view camera before.

MurrayMinchin · Feb 6, 2008

Squidward said:
Oh, forgot to mention this: I've never seen first hand nor handled a view camera before.

I'd never seen one until mine arrived in the mail...you sound completely logical to me!

Murray

Mark Fisher · Feb 6, 2008

I would at least try or buy a cheap view camera before building. It is a commitment to build a camera so it would be good to at least understand what you like and what you don't like. An old Calumet would tell you a lot and perhaps give you some parts to help build the camera.

rippo · Feb 6, 2008

my first experiences with LF:

- bought an Ansco 3A (122 roll film format, or 3x5) and shot paper negs in it
- various pinhole cameras, with paper negs
- Busch Pressman Model C ('baby press' camera, 2x3 format) with actual film
- built an 8x10 camera from the 'Primitive Photography' book, shot paper negs on it

see the slippery slope? it's not a bad way to get into LF, although it's a like being "a little bit pregnant". all the hassle without all the joy of a proper LF camera.

then i bought a Calumet/Cambo monorail. then someone GAVE me a Toyo-View C with all the trimmings (bless you, all you Brooks Instititute drop-outs!), at which point i got rid of the the Calumet.

i'm very happy with my Toyo monorail. i use the Busch from time to time, and tell myself i'll use the 3A again. the oddly painted wooden box masquerading as an 8x10 in the laundry room however, might never get used again. i'd much rather put weird lenses in front of high-octane cameras than the reverse.

i shoot a dSLR professionally, and enjoy it very much. it's convenient and takes nasty-good pictures. but when i don't feel much like a fashion photographer (and i'm not, babies and families mostly), i like to slow down with LF. it's nice to spend 30 minutes getting a shot. i'd say 50% of my 4x5 negs i feel worthy of printing. whereas it's like 10% with my dSLR. it's just a different way of thinking, and i'm glad to be able to do both.

(which is why my Bronica MF system is having an identity crisis...)

nick mulder · Feb 6, 2008

check out the camera modification forums here ...

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

In particular:

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

I'll think you'll find plenty of similar minded people - I made my 4x5 without having first seen a LF camera so you're in good company

The mill will come in handy, as would a lathe

Nick Zentena · Feb 6, 2008

Squidward said:
Part of the reason for wanting to make the camera is because of budget but also the satisfaction of making it myself with ideas of how I want it to work.

With 4x5 the budget choice is to buy used not to build. Unless you get the parts for free you'll spend more then many used cameras.

My first was a Graflex 1 monorail with 20 4x5 holders it cost about $70. It wasn't perfect by any means but I got to handle it and I've still got the holders. Even my mint Calumet CC401 was just over $100 including the case. Price a long 4x5 bellows and compare to that price.

4x5 you build because you want something special but it'll cost you more then used. If you haven't ever used a 4x5 it won't be easy to know what you want.

Buy one of the budget used cameras. Learn what you like/hate and then build something bigger

Steve Smith · Feb 6, 2008

You're no crazier than the rest of us (which isn't saying much).

Have a look here: http://www.raymentkirbycameras.co.uk/index.htm for some ideas. Look through the 'Workshop' section.

I have built one fairly crude 5x4 camera and have started to build a second one based on some of the ideas shown on that site.

Steve.

John Kasaian · Feb 6, 2008

Yup, you're crazy----but don't let that stop you. There are plenty of Calumet c-400 and Graphic Views out there for under $200. Such is a nice and pleasant place to start your sick and twisted journey into lf.
Get a copy of Steve Simmons "Using The View Camera."
Have fun!

Laurent · Feb 6, 2008

I'll second Steve and John : you're absolutely crazy, but IMO it helps for Large Format photography.

My first camera was built from Jon Grepstad plans. It took me about one year (OK, my job both as an IT consultant and as a father does not give me lots of hobby time) to build it, and I shot 3 negs with it... If it's about building it I'd say it's OK, but if it's about photography, I'd suggest to buy something used.

Removed Account · Feb 6, 2008

I hadn't seen a view camera in person until I bought my first one! It's incredibly addictive and I find that not counting exposure mistakes I get a much higher ratio of good images than from a 35mm or digi cam. This is mostly because it takes a while to set up the shot, especially when just learning to use movements! As John Kasaian mentioned there are plenty of cheap view cameras available. SHAMELESS PLUG: I've got my first Graphic View up in (there was a url link here which no longer exists), if you can view them. I was asking a pretty high price with a newer ad, but seeing what the gear goes for I've brought my head down to earth a bit I've sent you a PM about it.

Seriously though, I've found learning 4x5 to transform the way I shoot. I'm MUCH more careful, due to the cost of the film and the effort required to create a shot. Lugging my big studio camera and tripod around is a bit of a pain, but as others have said you've got to be a bit batty to shoot LF in this day and age. After only having a 4x5 for ages (I sold my digi Rebel XTi to buy it!) I just got a 35mm point and shoot. It took me 4 days to go through a 24 frame roll, and that's with only shooting 20 frames, including one accidentally! There's a whole new world out there which I might not have discovered if it were not for APUG. I've learned most of what I know here, continue to learn, and hopefully teach those newer than myself what I have learned.

Soon you will learn to not be disoriented when hanging by your feet!

- Justin

Squidward · Feb 6, 2008

Thanks for the replies, folks.

The comment I made about being building this on a budget is because I can spread the cost out over a long period of time making my monthly costs less. I know that it will cost more in the long run on materials alone, not to mention my time (time is money!). So, spring for a used rig right now for $200 or so or build one over a year spreading the $300 or so out equals about $25 a month.

Thanks for the links. I'll continue to do my research. Research is free, relatively speaking

vet173 · Feb 6, 2008

Just looking forward to your post after your first look through an 8x10.

mark · Feb 6, 2008

Watch ebay for a while and you will catch something within your budget.

Alan9940 · Feb 6, 2008

I would find a used 4x5, use your Ektar lens to get started, and see if you like working with large format. Anything 4x5 and up requires a commitment; it's a slow, methodical way to create images. Personally, I love LF for that very reason; it slows me down and demands that I think about the picture I want to make. The ability to shift plane of focus for nearly unlimited DOF is very nice, too!

Good luck.

BobbyR · Feb 6, 2008

Squidward said:
Oh, forgot to mention this: I've never seen first hand nor handled a view camera before.

Listen--do you hear the wind--it is crying Speedgraphic-Speedgraphic.......

Terence · Feb 6, 2008

I dropped you a PM about borrowing a 4x5 if you want to try out LF before taking the plunge.

MP_Wayne · Feb 6, 2008

I too love 4x5 because it is slow, methodical and deliberate (and super relaxing - especially when things come together perfectly). And the resulting negs are to die for.

Keep your eye peeled on Ebay (or other sourced) for an old 60s Era, Calumet monorail. You've got a lens already, and I have seen lens-less grey Calumets go for as little $50-$70. Then, after using it for a while, you will see what you want in your build camera project. I sold my old Calumet, with case and 5 lensboards (1 recessed) for a mere $90 Canadian about 18 months ago. There are deals out there and that camera was a great machine to start my 4x5 journey.

Good luck!

snallan · Feb 6, 2008

Though the Ektar may only just cover 4x5, and you will not have much leeway for rise/fall, or shift; if you get a camera with swing and tilt at the rear standard, you will still be able to play with scheimpflug, and placing the plane of focus where you want it.

Squidward · Feb 6, 2008

vet173 said:
Just looking forward to your post after your first look through an 8x10.

NNNOOOOOoooooooo...................

Terence, thanks for the offer but I don't want to risk having my kids mess up your equipment. They're good kids, for the most part, but they are kids.

Yes, I completely understand that LF is a major commitment and I understand that setup time is something that I will need to take into consideration. I also know that it is anything but portable, compared to my SLR and DSLR.

Terence · Feb 6, 2008

Actually, weight isn't that bad. And set up time isn't as much of an issue because you'll take maybe 2 photos instead of shooting half a roll at the same location. It slows you down and forces you to cull your shots before you take them.

Jim Fitzgerald · Feb 6, 2008

Squidward, welcome to APUG. I would suggest that you find a 4x5 camera design that you like and then go from there. You will eventually go bigger, trust me. I have a Zone VI 4x5 that I love and a Seneca Improved 8x10 that I bought off of e-bay a few years ago. I just finished building my first camera and tripod by hand in my apartment. I have a drill, dremmel, and various other fine hand tools and a killer dovetail saw that I cut a lot of wood with. It took me about 1 1/2 years to build and I was in no rush to finish it. The camera is an 8x20 ULF. There are many plans on this site for camera building. Dan Dozer has a set that are very complete and simple to follow. It is in the classified section. Bellows and film holders are what cost unless you make those yourself. I'm about half way done with my 11x14 Walnut folding camera. Just got the bellows and a holder off of e-bay. You can find old cameras and rob the parts from them to build with. Takes time and is perfectly doable. Time and patience is needed. Plenty of help on this forum. It really does help to be very CRAZY to do this but let me tell you that when you look in the ground glass of a camera you built it looks even better. Good luck on your quest.

Jim

JBrunner · Feb 7, 2008

If you really want to build a camera, at your level of experience, I would recommend against scratch building. I would recommend building a kit camera, like a Bender, or a Bulldog.

Nick Zentena · Feb 7, 2008

Squidward said:
I also know that it is anything but portable, compared to my SLR and DSLR.

Portable is the wrong word. My 8x10 is very portable. With a lens it isn't really that much heavier then my F4 with a zoom lens and might even be lighter then one of those big heavy zooms used for sports etc.

So carrying it isn't much of an issue. You just can't shoot it off the hip so to speak. Now others here have hand held LF cameras

Wanting to get into large format, am I crazy?

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