Want to Buy Wanted - Crinkled Plastic developing Film Ribbon for 70mm

[eli griggs]

I am looking for old fashoned Crinkled plastic ribbon for film developing 70mm film, in 7- 15 foot lengths.

No cracks in ribbon preferred.

Cheers.

 

[MattKing]

If you find any, please post here, because I would love to make up an apron for 616 film and my Kodak Developing Tank.

 

[Kino]

I *think* I saw a new developing tank for 120 with the dimpled apron on Banggood or AliExpress or one of those importer websites in the last month or two.

You might be able to contact the manufacturer, if you can find the tank, and ask them to sell it to you by the foot...

 

[Donald Qualls]

The 120 size apron material would be too narrow for 70mm/116/616 film.

@eli griggs Is it a case of having 70mm film and needing to develop it? There are (fairly) easy mods for (affordable) Paterson reels to take up to a five foot strip of arbitrary width film (you'd need a three-reel or larger tank for 116). If you need to process longer strips, that won't do it, but...

What I do see as the advantage of apron is that a pretty long strip will fit in a large diameter tank like a Nikor or B&W King 4x5 size. I personally hate it -- I've used it a couple times with poor results -- but I know some folks swear by it.

 

[eli griggs]

Yes, I was no all that fond of using an apron when I first started developing film, and moved to the 1970's Paterson tanks pretty quickly, however seeing what folks want for a decent 70mm tank and reel, I doubt I'll be able to afford a set any time soon, and I do want to use the 70mm I have and the Ilford HP5 Plus that's still available, though I'm still looking for an A70 back.

Cheers.

 

[BAC1967]

I use a 70mm stainless reel that I was lucky to find at a flea market for cheap. Before that I used a Bakelite tank with a reel that adjusts to 70mm. The problem with that is getting the film on the reel is very difficult. If there’s a trick I don’t know for loading that type of reel that may be the way to go, they are fairly common.

 

[Donald Qualls]

Some of the old plastic reels (predating the ball bearing ratchet type Paterson sells) just have a little step where the film feeds in, to keep the back end of the strip from working out of the groove during agitation. For these, the technique I learned (in 1969) was to use my thumbs as the ratchet, squeezing the film edge against the insertion point in the reel as I rotate that plate forward, then releasing and squeezing the other thumb for the opposite stroke. The ball bearings are easier to use, but the simple plates are easier/cheaper to make and have less to fail.

This kind is what you're likely to get if you find a tank and reels made to take 116 -- seems to me FR made these for 116, even 122, as late as the 1970s. You might set up an eBay search for FR (Fincke & Roselieve, if I've recalled the spelling right) and their main competitor of the day, Yankee. Likely there are "vintage" FR tanks on eBay right now that will take 116. Still limited to five feet of film (since they're made with 135-36 as the longest intended roll), but you can cut the strips if necessarly, lose one frame to be able to develop all of it.

 

[guangong]

Leitz, among others, made developing tanks that used crinkled strips. The ones I have come across were made of celluloid that has become very brittle over the years, and hence, unusable. Therefore of interest only to collectors. If memory serves me, crinkled celluloid ribbon was in my FR developing kit some 70 yrs ago. I believe the crinkled strips were more common in 1930s and 1940s, and doubt if any replacements exist.
Your idea is interesting. Could a ribbon be homemade with a sturdy plastic strip and dipples added with some kind of star shaped wheel?

 

[Kino]

Just speculating, but it seems a set of meshing rollers of the proper diameter and width, with depressions or "scallops" on one and protruding "knobs" on the other might be successfully 3D printed as a press to form these aprons. Then a ribbon of appropriately sized plastic could be heated with an air gun as it entered the rollers and the material slowly run through these rollers to form the apron, letting it cool before winding it up.

It could be built something like a PTR film cleaner is configured to go between motion picture film rewinds, only with the rollers closer together and interlocking to form the dimples as the heated material is passed through the press;

But, being that I have no skills in CAD or 3D printing, it's little more than possibly a helpful suggestion than a solution.

 

[BAC1967]

Some of the old plastic reels (predating the ball bearing ratchet type Paterson sells) just have a little step where the film feeds in, to keep the back end of the strip from working out of the groove during agitation. For these, the technique I learned (in 1969) was to use my thumbs as the ratchet, squeezing the film edge against the insertion point in the reel as I rotate that plate forward, then releasing and squeezing the other thumb for the opposite stroke. The ball bearings are easier to use, but the simple plates are easier/cheaper to make and have less to fail.

This kind is what you're likely to get if you find a tank and reels made to take 116 -- seems to me FR made these for 116, even 122, as late as the 1970s. You might set up an eBay search for FR (Fincke & Roselieve, if I've recalled the spelling right) and their main competitor of the day, Yankee. Likely there are "vintage" FR tanks on eBay right now that will take 116. Still limited to five feet of film (since they're made with 135-36 as the longest intended roll), but you can cut the strips if necessarly, lose one frame to be able to develop all of it.

The one I have is made of black Bakelite and it doesn't do the ratcheting motion. I tried loading it by pushing the film in, after about an hour of wiggling the film back and forth I managed to get it loaded that way. I also tried loading it like you would a stainless steel reel, that didn't work well. I know Bakelite can swell when it gets wet for extended periods of time, maybe it had a coating that has worn off over time making it hard to load. Regardless, that tank doesn't get used anymore, too much frustration.

 

[Donald Qualls]

The one I have is made of black Bakelite and it doesn't do the ratcheting motion. I tried loading it by pushing the film in, after about an hour of wiggling the film back and forth I managed to get it loaded that way. I also tried loading it like you would a stainless steel reel, that didn't work well. I know Bakelite can swell when it gets wet for extended periods of time, maybe it had a coating that has worn off over time making it hard to load. Regardless, that tank doesn't get used anymore, too much frustration.

The tank plates don't rotate part of a turn back and forth, relative to one another? That's the really annoying "push in" kind. One thing that might help is to get an old toothbrush and very thoroughly scrub the film grooves in both plates with some dishwashing soap. Rinse thoroughly and dry completely before attempting to load film, and try with your "dummy" exposed practice roll again. If the reel plates are actually Bakelite, I'm amazed it's come down to present unbroken.

Then again, unless that set holds a film size your modern tank and reel(s) don't, it's probably easier to put it on the shelf as an example of how things have improved. You probably have no choice but to agitation with the swizzle stick, as well, since most of those had pouring openings in the lid and no inversion cap.

 

[gorbas]

eli griggs, you can try to make your own from perforated 70mm film by threading fishing line thru perforations. Most of 70mm stock is on mylar or similar, very durable and strong base.
But then you need to make big reel to accommodate all that extra thickens?
Dan, Nokton48, here on PhotoTrio, found affordable plastic 70mm spiral reels from dental supplier. Minimum order is a quite a few reels, but maybe he has some extra left over?
I got mine from him and unfortunately I did not tried it yet.

 

[MattKing]

Nokton48, here on PhotoTrio, found affordable plastic 70mm spiral reels from dental supplier. Minimum order is a quite a few reels, but maybe he has some extra left over?

I believe that that supplier is/was NDT Supply, and the product no longer shows on their website.

 

[eli griggs]

eli griggs, you can try to make your own from perforated 70mm film by threading fishing line thru perforations. Most of 70mm stock is on mylar or similar, very durable and strong base.
But then you need to make big reel to accommodate all that extra thickens?
Dan, Nokton48, here on PhotoTrio, found affordable plastic 70mm spiral reels from dental supplier. Minimum order is a quite a few reels, but maybe he has some extra left over?
I got mine from him and unfortunately I did not tried it yet.

If I understand you correctly, no reel is needed with a crinkled apron/ribbon, as it performs the roll of the reel, and only a good tank is needed.

Jobo made an excellent tank and reel years ago, I had bought one when I bought my first Hasselblad kit, back in the early 1980'swhich included an A70 back and a sampling of loaded cassettes of films.

It was a bear to load, but it did it's job well enough, though I might load smaller lengths of film into cassettes say ten feet instead of fifteen, but that's another discussion.

Your suggestion presents a possible second possibility, using 'dots' of hot glue, at every other sprocket holes, or perhaps glue on resin 'fish eyes' made on tacks and/or nails, into the form of small hemispheres, and glued onto both sides.of a thick length of film.

Does anyone here know if super glues or epoxies used in such a mater in b&w developers, stops, etc, would have an unsavory effect on chemistry or film?

It would be a labor of love to make and affix these 'dots' evenly spaced on both sides, but when done, might that give sufficient separation to films being developed?

 

[Donald Qualls]

Fully cured and amine bloom washed away, a correctly mixed epoxy should be inert to photographic chemicals -- note the qualifications there, though. Cured super glue should also be inert, though the spray accelerator probably isn't (it will evaporate after a few minutes or hours from application, if left in open air).

It would probably be much less work to thread heavy monofilament (trimmer line?) through the sprocket holes, held in place by a heat-formed "head" at each end. Most trimmer lines are polyethylene or nylon (both are used in wetted photographic equipment, so seem likely to be okay).

 

[RLangham]

I've seen one before but I think it was hardened to the point of unusability. It was at an antique store where I'm a vendor. Do you want me to check if it's still there and if it's usable? My finders' fee will be ten dollars past the price they're asking and I will charge shipping by priority mail.

 

[eli griggs]

Thank you for your offer to check, but no.

Cheers and Be Well,
Eli.

 

[RLangham]

Thank you for your offer to check, but no.

Cheers and Be Well,
Eli.

I mean I go in there every week.