Want more Grain....!

gmfotografie · Jul 24, 2013

hi at all,

i´m using the classic combination ilford (rc and fb) with d76; shooting 400TX.
does anybody know to put more grain on the print?

best michael

Tom1956 · Jul 24, 2013

Rodinal--grain galore.

Thomas Bertilsson · Jul 24, 2013

Michael Hoth said:
hi at all,

i´m using the classic combination ilford (rc and fb) with d76; shooting 400TX.
does anybody know to put more grain on the print?

best michael

Smaller negatives.
Crop your negatives after intentionally composing with that in mind.
Lith printing
Paterson FX-39 film developer or FX-37 (mix your own) - beautiful sharp but prominent grain

Rodinal does not give negs that are super grainy.

MartinP · Jul 24, 2013

Print-developer is more active than film-developer so you could experiment there, using a shorter time and/or similarly with a higher temperature. If you wanted high contrast at the same time (soot-and-whitewash) then of course under expose and develop for longer.

sly · Jul 24, 2013

Delta 3200, in 35mm, developed in Rodinal.

cliveh · Jul 24, 2013

Use a grain screen when printing and then if you change your mind you still have a fine grain image.

Rick A · Jul 24, 2013

Under expose and over develope to make TX grain blow up.

removed account4 · Jul 24, 2013

wide angle lens so you can enlarge and you will have grain

Bill Burk · Jul 24, 2013

See posts 52, 55 and 57 of this thread:

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

David Brown · Jul 25, 2013

Tri-X rated at 1000 developed in Acufine. I know it says "ultra fine grain", but don't believe it.

mesantacruz · Jul 25, 2013

DEKTOL!!!... and shake shake shake... for me... 1:9 works... 1 part dektol 9 parts water... for about the same time you would do with d-76... builds up contrast really really fast... so you might want to shave off a minute or dilute further.

TheToadMen · Jul 25, 2013

Rick A said:
Under expose and over develope to make TX grain blow up.

and a lot more agitation while you're at it.

lxdude · Jul 25, 2013

sly said:
Delta 3200, in 35mm, developed in Rodinal.

That'll do it!

TheToadMen · Jul 25, 2013

lxdude said:
Delta 3200, in 35mm, developed in Rodinal.

That'll do it!

Fuji Neopan 1600 would also have been a good candidate, if it was still available ...
(I still got some in the cooler).

jumbosilverette · Jul 25, 2013

David Brown said:
Tri-X rated at 1000 developed in Acufine. I know it says "ultra fine grain", but don't believe it.

That's how I achieved it back in the day. Oh yeah, and really contrasty paper, grade 5 or more.

tkamiya · Jul 25, 2013

Photoshop!

....just kidding....

lxdude · Jul 25, 2013

A condenser enlarger helps. One with a point light source really helps.

Bill Burk · Jul 25, 2013

I had the distinct pleasure of printing a couple grainy 11x14 enlargements from expired 7/97 APX-100 shot in a half-frame 35mm camera.

I developed in D-76 1:1 for 19 minutes at 68F and achieved a Contrast Index 0.59 and EI between 64-80 (though I shot it at EI 50).

Something about one print just made me happy with it in one go. I feel the negative/film/exposure/sharpness all were PERFECT.

In all, the perfect print - and the grain isn't huge. But just as smooth and satisfying as anyone could want.

(Of course the photograph itself, just a group shot, is not newsworthy.)

nworth · Jul 25, 2013

Two things; D-76 is a fine grain developer, and it tends to hide the grain; grain is an inherent part of the film, and there is little you can do to increase it. Selecting a developer like Rodinol (or maybe DK-50) will make the grain apparent, but modern films are still very fine grained. The idea of taking the picture with high enlargement in mind and then using a non-fine grain developer seems to work, at least to some extent (you get into fuzziness problems). An old technique was to print with a texture screen sandwiched with the negative. You used to be able to buy a selection of texture screens, including some for enhanced grain effects, pretty cheaply, but I haven't seen them on the market for about 35 years. Perhaps a reader knows how to make one.

Thomas Bertilsson · Jul 25, 2013

nworth said:
Two things; D-76 is a fine grain developer, and it tends to hide the grain; grain is an inherent part of the film, and there is little you can do to increase it. Selecting a developer like Rodinol (or maybe DK-50) will make the grain apparent, but modern films are still very fine grained. The idea of taking the picture with high enlargement in mind and then using a non-fine grain developer seems to work, at least to some extent (you get into fuzziness problems). An old technique was to print with a texture screen sandwiched with the negative. You used to be able to buy a selection of texture screens, including some for enhanced grain effects, pretty cheaply, but I haven't seen them on the market for about 35 years. Perhaps a reader knows how to make one.

Yes, D76 is a solvent developer, so if sharp grain is to be obtained - dilute the stock solution.

I also agree that high enlargement factor is the way to go to get big grain. Not even Rodinal gives that much grain; at least I don't see it as drastically more grainy than even Replenished Xtol, making 16x20 prints from 35mm Tri-X.

If you must use a developer to get really sharp grain - try FX37. It is way sharper than Rodinal, and gives honest gorgeous grain.

But cropping negatives gives infinitely more grain than any developer will. Shoot film as if it was intended to be cropped at printing time.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

StoneNYC · Jul 26, 2013

could also make a duplicate of the 400TX on D3200 as others have mentioned, actually I think the kodak P3200 is worse but that's opinion. Anyway either way if you dupe it onto D3200/P3200 somehow and push it to 3200 or even 6400 it would certainly be grainy

If you've already developed this film anyway...

IF you're planning to shoot more, two things, one is use the aforementioned 3200 speed films, and second, during development, shake the hell out of it, don't be shy, pretend you want to mess with your friend and hand him a can of soda that will explode.

each "agitation" just shake it, and shake it good...

clayne · Jul 26, 2013

Overexpose, overdevelop, overagitate, Rodinal.

TheToadMen · Jul 26, 2013

clayne said:
Overexpose, overdevelop, overagitate, Rodinal.

and ....

show us the pictures !!!!

darkosaric · Jul 26, 2013

If this all is not enough: some papers goes very grainy in Lith developer. For example Fomabrom in Moersch Easy Lith:

Dead Link Removed

Bill Burk · Jul 26, 2013

TheToadMen said:
and ....

show us the pictures !!!!

Here's a tight crop from the PERFECT print with satisfying grain.

Original is a dirty border print on 11x14 with about 1 inch borders. Negative is 35mm half-frame APX-100.

This crop is about 2 1/2 inches by 4 1/2 inches.

Herringbone pattern in the shadows is a scanner artifact not visible on the original print.

Herringbone on the hat is real. Just imagine if I had shot 400 speed film and developed in Dektol!

Want more Grain....!

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