Walkie Talkie

[LAG]

For your needs, and as you live in Europe, a couple of free-to-use PMR-446 radio is the way to go.
Very cheap, very practical.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PMR446

PMR-446 devices have only 8 channels, though. You will have to study a little bit about "good manners" in order to share the frequency with some other people who are using it (cranemen, warehousemen, paragliders and hikers, and even local police sometimes).

A decently well-made PMR-446 also has LPD433 capabilities:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LPD433

For shorter distances LPD433 is much more practical than PMR-446, you have many more channels and much less range, so much less interferences.

If you get so far apart from each other as to make reassembly not an obvious task, you can examine GPS apps for smartphones (such as Real-Time GPS Tracker) which allow you to keep track of your "buddy" (and the buddy to keep track of your position) so that it is easier, when you talk at the radio, to understand the reciprocal position.

Beware that you need a specific radio "ham" license to use frequencies outside of the above mentioned 446 MHz and 433 MHz. The open frequencies should be more than enough to satisfy your needs.

Thank you Diapositivo!

I am afraid I do not understand the technical explanation on the links above, but appreciated! I guess you're right about the open frequencies (and the good manners of course) we're going to use an open frequence (we had already bought two units: 8 Channel Twin Walkie Talkies UHF400-470MHZ 2-Way Radio 3KM Range Interphone Black) we had set the same frequence in both devices - since we do not understand a thing about this, the configuration is what it brings by default - and it seems there're working fine. AFAIK we don't have to have any license, do we? I'll let you know as soon as we have the chance to prove them (in the forest).

As for the GPS apps, I can tell you that it's no possible, not for me but for my friend, although he has a phone is not that "smart" (the phone), but thanks anyway for the suggestion.

Warm regards!

 

[Diapositivo]

Thank you Diapositivo!

I am afraid I do not understand the technical explanation on the links above, but appreciated! I guess you're right about the open frequencies (and the good manners of course) we're going to use an open frequence (we had already bought two units: 8 Channel Twin Walkie Talkies UHF400-470MHZ 2-Way Radio 3KM Range Interphone Black) we had set the same frequence in both devices - since we do not understand a thing about this, the configuration is what it brings by default - and it seems there're working fine. AFAIK we don't have to have any license, do we? I'll let you know as soon as we have the chance to prove them (in the forest).

As for the GPS apps, I can tell you that it's no possible, not for me but for my friend, although he has a phone is not that "smart" (the phone), but thanks anyway for the suggestion.

Warm regards!

If you use a frequence which is outside the "free" frequency, and have no license, you can incur in very heavy penalties, which are heavier than you might ever imagine (in Italy, and I guess also in Spain or Portugal).
Besides, don't think that if you use a frequency that you cannot use "they will not find you", "they" will localize you quite well and quite fast.

If you use a wrong frequency, you might find yourself interfering with aerial traffic, or police, or fire brigades, or ambulance, something that radioamateurs cannot do themselves. That really means having the police ring at your door.

Many cheap radios are now sold (I bought one myself) which allow you to behave "against the rules", i.e. in frequencies that are reserved to radioamateur transmission, or to some public bodies or to some private bodies (private police). That is not without risks!

PMR-446 has, in the 446 MHz frequency, eight channels, they are (in MHz):
446,006250 (Channel 1)
446,018750
446,031250
446,043750
446,056250
446,068750
446,081250
446,093750 (Channel 8)

You should configure your radio so that both you and your friend use one (the same) of these 8 channels.

Using a program like CHIRP you can program your radio (as you would with a TV set) with those 8 channels and then, using the radio in "channel mode" you can change the channel in use as you would with your TV set (i.e. without need to dial the frequency). Your radio in "channel mode" will show you only the name you attributed to each frequency, e.g. PMR 1, PMR 2, PMR 3, ..., PMR 8.

If the legislation in your country is like in Italy, which is extremely likely, you have to forget that your radio can use the all the frequency range 400 - 470 MHz.
You can only use 433 MHz and 446 MHz.
433 MHz must be used according to the LPD433 standard.
I would stick to 446 MHz or, even better, I would buy a pair of PMR-446 radios and, if possible, give back the radio you bought or, if you want to keep them and use them, make sure you understand the basics.

I bought my portable VHF so that, if I am in need while hiking in the mountain, and I have no telephone signal, and nobody answers my calls with my PMR-466, I have another possibility. But I would use that radio only for an emergency call, and I know how to make an emergency call through radioamateur repeaters (I hike in the mountains with two radios, yes).

 

[craigclu]

Our Wisconsin deer hunting camp is isolated enough that cell phone connecting is iffy. Over the years, we've graduated to iCom and Baofeng GMRS rigs. The Baofengs are a recent addition and offer a lot for the money as they have great tuning ability via USB to computer connecting, weather channel and FM capabilities. Their ease at setting up repeaters is a bonus in our situation, too. There is a growing, seemingly endless stream of accessories for the Baofeng (battery choices, hi gain antenna choices, battery eliminators, ear bud/headset, etc). They also have a decent flashlight and signal beacon along with an emergency button that sends an alert to fellow channel users. Many of us have 3M Peltor electronic muffs that can be wired direct to the 2 types of radios we use, allowing hearing protection (we hunt with handguns) while delivering crystal clear sound while not spilling unwanted sounds for our hunting application.

Basic radio: http://tinyurl.com/yafss6cs

8 watt version: http://tinyurl.com/y7mszbfq

 

[jlbruyelle]

In addition to Diapositivo's comprehensive info, I want to emphasize the fact that FRS and GMRS are prohibited in Europe, so all those advices do not apply to your case. This is true all over Europe, including Spain and Portugal. Some "smart guys" still try to sell them on auction sites, but using them will expose you to heavy fines, so don't do it. To sum it up, those 400-470 talkies are an absolute no-no and, yes, you should send them back if you can. However, both PMR446 and LPD are allowed all over Europe, without any differences from one country to another. The high-end models claim a free-field range up to 10 km (I guess this is due to a more sensitive receiving stage than the cheaper models, since the emission power is always 500 mW), however I have not checked this myself. However my experience suggests that it is hard to be be out of reach with one of those, unless maybe you are in different valleys. Higher ranges are possible with professional-oriented standards, but these require a license. Also, note that getting a radio amateur license would not help, since radio amateur activities are restricted to specific frequencies (not the whole 400-470 MHz range) and uses, which don't include trekking or navigation, so those advices also don't apply to you.

As regards GPS, low-end trekking devices are not all that expensive and can be a real asset to find your way, or to give your location if you need assistance, so I'd consider having one GPS for each of you anyway.

 

[craigclu]

Oops... My USA-Centric brain didn't notice the OP's location!

 

[LAG]

Hello guys!

The thing is that I want a device to use it - when my friend is ahead of me 2 or 3 km in the woods or up in the mountains - only to know if he is still alive and kicking or just to tell him "come back I have found a green wolf!!!"... and if there is the possibility of using it in some other places (...) even better, but nothing else. I do not need to know any kind of position, I do not need to get in touch with E.T.

I hope that with a simple 8 channel Walkie Talkie PMR device mentioned above I am not going to get into trouble with anyone ... am I right?

How could I know if I am breaking the law?

Thanks!

 

[jlbruyelle]

Well, if a van with tinted windows suddenly stops at your side and two men with suspicious eyes rush out to inspect your belongings and inquire whether you have a radio transmitter, then you are probably not quite abiding by the regulations - this really happened to a recordist friend of mine while he was shooting a film in Paris, the culprit turned out to be a wireless mic bought before the regulation changed due to DVB. Those regulatory agencies do mean business after all!

But really, you cannot possibly break the law with PMR. It is the whole point. The only thing is that occasionally you can accidentally be on the same channel as someone else, which is not at all illegal and it is easy to switch to another channel to solve the problem.

 

[LAG]

Thanks jlbruyelle!

 

[Diapositivo]

Hello guys!

The thing is that I want a device to use it - when my friend is ahead of me 2 or 3 km in the woods or up in the mountains - only to know if he is still alive and kicking or just to tell him "come back I have found a green wolf!!!"... and if there is the possibility of using it in some other places (...) even better, but nothing else. I do not need to know any kind of position, I do not need to get in touch with E.T.

I hope that with a simple 8 channel Walkie Talkie PMR device mentioned above I am not going to get into trouble with anyone ... am I right?

How could I know if I am breaking the law?

Thanks!

For your needs, a simple couple of devices such as these:
http://www.mediaworld.it/mw/walkie-talkie/noname-p-723685--4?rbtc=tro|pf|i-723685_BRONDI FX-Compact Sport S||p|alwayson_trovaprezzi|

would do the task pretty decently.

If you want something better (more practical, more sensitive, with better protection against dust or rain, with possibility to add accessories, with a generally better build quality) two common choices are Intek 5050 and Midland G9, or similar, for three times the price. You find various models by Kenwood, Motorola as well.
In that case look for models compatible with "Kenwood connector" for accessories. That'a a de facto standard which is used in many products.

In Italy the maximum allowed power for PMR-446 is 0,5 W. In other countries higher powers are allowed, so you can find "export" versions which emit 4 or 5W.
You should check your own local regulation to see what is allowed and what is not.

A higher power output gives very little advantage. UHF frequencies need, more or less, that the two radio are in "almost visual" contact, that means the same valley. A hill can be a serious obstacle, there is not much "deflection" so the wave will not descend past the other side of the hill.
That means you can easily talk with somebody who is 50 km on a bee line away on top of a mountain, but might not manage to talk with somebody who is 300m above you but 100m meters behind a cliff.

Throwing more power at the problem will not solve it. 0.5 W is sufficient to talk at huge distances when there are no obstacles. Transmitting at 5W instead of 0.5W will, though, cut your battery autonomy by 90%. 0.5W is plenty enough power. 5W will create unnecessary noise to people far away from you.


I have a Midland G9 which I bought because it uses 4 AA accumulators (instead of 5, or a bespoke lithium battery). Reception, sensitivity and general build quality is very good. Interface is a bit clumsy, really not well thought out. Double-channel operation is very clumsy, there is no "busy channel lockout" function (which prevents you from talking over another convesation, even if you don't hear it because they use another "subtone" and so it is filtered out by your radio) and the signal of "busy channel", again, doesn't turn on if the channel is busy but it is engaged with another subtone.

I am not going to buy another PMR-446 but I am a bit disappointed by the general project of my Midland.

My other radio, the Baofeng UV-5R (a VHF/UHF radio which I advice NOT to buy unless you know very well what to do with it and when) is cheaper and I find it much better as far as interface and command layout are concerned.

 

[jlbruyelle]

In Italy the maximum allowed power for PMR-446 is 0,5 W. In other countries higher powers are allowed, so you can find "export" versions which emit 4 or 5W.

Not in the EU: we are all limited to 0.5 W. This may be a confusion with CB, which allows up to 4W (but then you have to deal with a lot of useless traffic) or professional standards requiring a license (see Motorola GP340 for an example). I am not aware of a country in which PMR446 transmitters are allowed 4 or 5W. I don't know the whole world, there may be such countries, but I strongly suspect it's just a way for some sellers to sell not-quite-lawful equipment and get away with it, by saying that it is intended for other countries and it is the buyers' responsibility to check what they can or cannot do. A very common (and old) trick, already used for years to sell e.g. speed camera detectors.

 

[LAG]

Thank you very much for your help with this!

 

[fdonadio]

A very common (and old) trick, already used for years to sell e.g. speed camera detectors.

In Brazil, citizens are allowed to receive whatever is "in the air", but need a license to transmit in most frequency bands — except for some well known bands like some cited here, with power limitations.

That makes speed camera detectors lawful. Jammers, OTOH, are outlawed.

 

[Diapositivo]

Not in the EU: we are all limited to 0.5 W.

Information which I read over the internet claimed that in France, IIRC, the limit was 5W.
That seemed strange to me as I would expect the same regulation to apply all over the EU, and I am glad to know the information was wrong.

Yesterday on the mountains I made the following radio contacts, with a 0.5W PMR-446:
Monte La Monna - Monte Semprevisa: 35.14 km
Monte La Monna - Monte Elefante: 78.7 km
Monte La Monna - Monte La Torratta: 39 km

This was from near the top to near the top of mountains around 2.000 m high but, as said, if there is a rock-solid obstacle in the middle, no amount of transmitting power can solve the problem. If there is no obstacle then 0.5W is plenty enough.
The only situation where more than 0.5W would be useful - maybe - is to try to pass through a large stretch of foliage, such a situation where two persons are on different points in a wood.

When the two persons are at sea level 0.5W allows around 5km in theory (probably more because there certainly is a small "deflection" also with UHF, according to my experience).